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                        Dr. Stanley S. Bass Interview


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Q: I am delighted that you have agreed to do an interview with our little
health journal. I think you will find the membership eager to listen
to your views; however, better understanding will occur with as much
verification of your points as this format will allow. If you would,
start by telling us about yourself and your practice in the nutritional
field, as well as something about your earlier Illnesses and the road
to your present standard of health. If you could elaborate on that with
some data, It would be helpful.

A: I was born very sickly into a violent household. I had a brother who
was still in diapers when I was born. He went from having had mother's
full attention to having none and he never forgave me for it. He tortured
me nearly daily. My father's discipline put me in the hospital several
times.  My dyslexia and autism, which no one understood at the time,
embarrassed and frustrated my parents. My dyslexia was to the extent that
the printed page would swirl and I got vertigo. If I tried to read I would
vomit. I tried holding the page down with my finger but my parents and
teachers would not let me. Because I was borderline autistic and sickly
I rarely played with other children.

Near my 10th birthday I developed peritonitis which was a severe
intestinal infection. Doctors misdiagnosed it as appendicitis. When they
discovered that my appendix was fine, they took it out anyway "in case
it causes you problems in the future".

My bones were brittle, and I regularly broke bones in my limbs. I was
diagnosed as borderline diabetic at 13. I developed angina pectoris
muscle spasms in and around the heart by age 151/2. I was diagnosed with
juvenile diabetes at that age.

At 19 I developed an ulcer that turned tumorous after medical
therapies. After surgery the incision turned tumorous from outer skin to
stomach. It was large. Doctors ordered it irradiated. and that caused me
to develop Multiple Myeloma (blood and bone cancers). Multiple Myeloma
survivors are less than 0.01%. Doctors ordered chemotherapy, which is
like napalming the body, destroying mostly healthy cells to try and
eliminate a few cancer cells. For every cancer cell that is killed by
chemotherapy, 1 billion healthy cells are killed. That is like killing
everybody on the planet because you don't like 6 people.

The chemotherapy made me a semi-invalid, and gave me psoriasis and
bursitis. I refused to continue chemo after 3 months. I chose to die
rather than be completely crippled for the rest of my short life. At
that point I had had 7 "incurable" diseases.

A volunteer for a hospice gave me a small booklet written by a woman who
cured herself of cancer by drinking raw carrot juice. I thought that
was pretty bizarre and unrealistic. But read the book anyway. I tried
the carrot juice.

Within 10 days my dyslexia vanished. There I was at 22 years old never
having read more than 20 pages of a book, finally able to read. I read
voraciously about diets and nutrition. If I went 7-10 days without
drinking the raw carrot juice dyslexia returned.

I experimented with diets, food-combining and sometimes supplements. The
macrobiotic diet seemed to put my cancers in remission but exacerbated
my diabetes and psoriasis.

I began experimenting with helping people who had health problems. I
experienced some spectacular healing with raw foods, especially with
enormous consumption of raw fat, like raw cream from cows, in combination
with vegetable juices.

By my 25th birthday I was eating totally raw food vegan-fruitarian
style. At 27 after 2 years eating completely raw, I had enough energy
to go wild, even though I was regularly so hungry as a raw-food
vegan/fruitarian that sometimes I overate until I vomited.

I mounted a bicycle and peddled for 21/2 years all over North America
from coast to coast and from Alaska to Central America. I lived off the
earth. sleeping on the ground, or in trees when it rained. and picking
fruit off plants. All of the physical stress that came from traveling and
living in the elements helped burn up all of the sugar from fruitarianism.

Osteoporosis became apparent, but I did not then as I should have
attribute it to the demineralization caused by large fruit consumption. I
felt euphoric most of the time I did not realize that my extreme highs
were mania created excessive fruit.

I searched for answers to complete healing. I wanted to reverse the
damage done by medical therapies and not ever be bothered by any of my
lingering diseases. I knew that I would not find answers in a society
that postulated dictums based on theory. I wanted experience to be my
teacher. I lived with somewhat primitive people learning their healing
and dietary techniques. I observed healthy animals for weeks at a time.

After 21/2 years my cancers resurged. Rather than fight it. I chose to
die. I selected an old Native American burial ground and began fasting
myself to death. After several weeks fasting I had an unusual experience
with coyotes. They gave me a freshly killed wild jackrabbit. I thought
it would kill me if I ate it raw. (I had been told by all of my medically
and scientifically minded relatives that wild rabbits contained bacteria
or virus that would kill a human.) I knew that fasting to death could
take at least 60 days. I wanted to end my life more quickly, so I ate
the rabbit raw. I returned to my campsite and lay down to die expecting
severe stomach cramps that I was told accompanied bacterially or virally
contaminated food. I felt euphoric, calm and happy. I thought that I
was leaving my diseased body because I felt so good.

But I woke the next morning having had the first completely restful sleep
of my life. I was nearly age 30. I began hunting. I ate rattle-snakes
and birds. I worked farms for raw milk, cream, eggs and chickens. Within
a few months I felt robust and strong.

I returned to Los Angeles to spread the wonderful news. Everybody thought
that I had lost my mind. Over the next year my health increased by leaps
and bounds because of the addition of raw meat to my raw diet.

However because of misinformation about foodborne illness from bacteria
and parasites I ate raw meat only two or three times a week usually
fish or chicken. I always ate it with the fear that there would be a
time when bacteria or parasites would sicken and kill me.

I began to jog then run. I ran up to 13 miles, did 250 pushups with
my feet 2-3 feet off the ground, and 30 handstand pushups every day
for 1 year. Because I had been so weak throughout my life and at this
point I could do so much I felt invincible. People commented on how
extraordinarily healthy I looked.

I was hired by a health food store as the nutritionist. A few people
listened and tried the raw meat, fish and chicken. Their increased health
was always remarkable.

I experimented with supplements. The more supplements I consumed the
weaker I got. I realized within 6 months that supplements were toxic on
a raw diet. Over the 2-year period I observed that most people who took
megavitamin therapy developed toxic livers and glands. It showed up in
their irises as well as temperaments and physical condition. But because
they experienced an increase in energy. they thought it beneficial. Their
highs were from toxic emergencies - the liver sending out hormones
calling forth glycogen to handle the toxicity.

Supplement-toxicity is similar to coffee or cigarettes, most often
producing debilitating side effects. It destroyed my desire and ability to
exercise. I never returned to exercise and yet I developed and redeveloped
the physique that accompanies strenuous regular exercise.

I continued eating raw meat once or twice weekly, and my health gradually
increased. Whenever I experienced detoxification, healing was always
a progress toward better functionality. I did not deteriorate as most
people do on cooked foods or meatless raw foods. I knew I was on the
right track by eating raw meat, but I could not set aside the bacteria
and parasite phobias. I was especially concerned because the vagus nerve
to my stomach had been severed in surgery for stomach cancer. I had
no hydrochloric acid to dissolve and annihilate bacteria and parasites
upon entering my body. Science and medicine put me in the category of
octogenarians who they say, are in danger of death from bacterial and
parasitic invasion from lack of hydrochloric acid in the stomach. I
continued to eat meat anyway.

In my 35 year I misidentified a poisonous mushroom and ate it. It was the
deadliest amanita mushroom, the 'death cap'. I ate enough to kill people
my size. My cancers returned twice as bad as they had ever been, and it
destroyed 90% of my liver. Along with severe liver-pain, extreme weight
loss. and body cramps, my diabetes returned. Every book on the death cap
mushroom said that death came within 10 days and it was welcomed. No one
in written history had survived after eating 1/15 the amount I had. I was
a semi-invalid again. I healed slowly by eating plenty of raw fat. Too
slowly. After 11/2 years of healing I began eating meats almost daily,
including beef, lamb, buffalo, seafood and organically grown fowl. Healing
time doubled and diabetes vanished. But it took me 61/2 years to recover to
a somewhat balanced state of being and my cancers to reenter remission
for the third time. It took 11 years to recover to where I had been
before I consumed the poisonous mushroom. But I recovered completely.

After 12 years eating raw meat and never having had any more than a
little diarrhea that might have been associated with it, I learned to
relax and not fear raw foodborne bacteria and parasites. It seemed to
me - at that point - that all of that hullabaloo about raw food borne
bacteria and parasites was superstitious like the witch hunt of old
times. My research showed that the FDA's research on foodborne bacterial
illness, 24-81 million cases a year, stated that over 96% were cooked
and processed canned and bottled food related. Raw was getting the rap,
but cooked and processed were the culprits.

I experimented and found that raw foods soured and/or spoiled with lots
of bacterial activity but did not putrefy. Only cooked and processed
food putrefied. Only cooked and processed foods contained lipid oxides
and disease producing protein toxins. The worst that soured and spoiled
raw food caused sometimes was nausea and diarrhea with occasional cramps
and fever and, rarely, a little blood in the stool - whereas cooked and
processed putrefied food often caused such severe poisoning that lives
were lost or near death.

It seems to me that science and medicine are in total denial or that
they are protecting the processed food industry and restaurants.

My nutritional career unofficially began in 1969. Since I hadn't died in
1961 when doctors said I would. I thought that I had had some answers
to better health. In 1969 I began advising and suggesting healing
methodologies for people, especially particulars about diet.

Now that I look back on my life, I wonder how I could have been so
confident, even arrogant, to advise anyone with the little knowledge
and experience that I had. I knew a lot about disease but little about
health and healing. I seemed to have a fairly good intuition for it.

However, I adhered to certain idealistic concepts that interfered
and sabotaged my intuition. I misled people into veganism and/or
fruitarianisin because I believed that all meat was poisonous and bad
karma. I didn't realize that something had to be killed to sustain life
whether animal, vegetable or fruit. That is a law of this planet. I did
not realize that only cooked meats contained poisons (i.e. lipid oxides
and protein toxins). In my early years as a nutritionist I helped many
and hurt many. Because my help was always greater than my mishaps,
I continued to counsel.

After I learned about the tremendous properties of raw fats my successes
reached 60%. After I learned about the fantastic healing characteristics
of eating raw meat, my successes with disease rose to 75%. After I
learned the techniques for amounts and particulars that certain foods had,
my successes reached 85% and better, depending upon the disease.

Occasionally there was relatively immediate healing. Most often though,
healing requires time to build strength, detoxify and regenerate.

The fact of healing according to Dr. F. Pottenger's work is that it
takes 5 generations to achieve optimal health.

It takes approximately 10 days to replace every cell (one generation)
in the blood, 21/2 years to replace one generation (every cell) of
glands. Approximately 41/2 years to replace one generation of arteries,
approximately 5 years to replace one generation of intestines and
tendons, approximately 6 years to replace one generation of cartilage,
and approximately 71/2 years to replace one generation of bone.

Therefore, to achieve one's optimal health in a particular body part, it
takes 5 generations: that is 7 weeks for the blood, 2 years for glands,
221/2 years for the arteries, 25 years for intestines and tendons, 30 years
for cartilage, and 371/2 years for bone. Usually, healing enough to stop
disturbing pain can he achieved during the first generation of healing.

Q: Many of our members are Natural Hygienists and have chosen to eat
a vegetarian (vegan and raw primarily) diet. Many fast on occasion to
allow their body to eliminate the toxic condition from daily stress. How
do you view this practice of fasting and what experiences or data could
you share with us on these views?

I have completed approximately 75 fasts from 1969-1981 of various lengths
-- many 1-day-a-week fasts, several 5-day, 10-day and 15-day fasts. One
31-day fast and one 41-day fast. During 60% of them I drank water only
with no cheating ever. During 40% I drank all or some of my urine and
a little water.

During the 41-day fast I drank all of my urine and a little water. Each
one, including 1-day fasts was difficult. The easier of the long-term
fasts was the 41-day drinking urine because of the nutrients in the
urine. Urine is the blood with most of the red blood cells removed and a
little ammonium added by the kidneys. During the 41-day fast (I should
call it a urine feast) I lost the least amount of weight and energy,
had the fewest headaches and had better disposition but my breath was
atrocious all of the time.

The 31-day fast on water only I did at age 27. It took me 21/2 years to
regain my equilibrium. The last intellectually motivated fast I did at age
33 - the 41-day urine fast. It took me 11/2 years to regain my strength.

I found that fasting longer than 3 days was impossible without daily
enemas to dilute the toxins in the bowels. Enemas destroyed the bacteria
that is the major constituent of feces but so did the toxicity from
fasting. I had constant headaches, depression, anxiety and nausea
without enemas.

I stopped fasting when I realized that the side effects of forced-fasting
were greater than the benefits. The benefit of ketosis, cellular
cannibalism, which usually occurs within 12 hours of fasting is that
it reduces the overpopulation of sluggish cells, leaving the stronger
cells and those that overproduce prostaglandins. This is a process of
mass genocide via cannibalism. The deleterious effects are that blood
maintains a higher acid ratio weakening and damaging red blood cells
and their ability to transport oxygen.

If fasting continues beyond 2 days severe blood-fat deficiency occurs. The
body leeches fats from the lymph system and cells to maintain it. This
fat- leeching weakens the immune system.

Another deleterious effect of fasting is that the necessary bacteria
level in the intestines diminishes. Since 60-90% of fecal matter is born
of bacteria, constipation results and severely diminishes bacterial
synthesis of B vitamins and amino acids. This further weakens and
diminishes the immune system.

Another side effect from fasts, resulting from blood-fat end lymph
deficiencies is that many toxins from either industrial pollution or
natural by-products of metabolism are freed. They irritate, burn and often
imbed in the stronger cells, therefore weakening them. Fat, especially
in lymph, usually binds with toxins and either neutralizes or escorts
them out of the body through the mucus mem- branes, skin or bowels. If
great collections of these toxins occur during fasting, kidney damage
results. These side-effects usually create edema, especially when eating
is resumed. The body often tries to dilute the toxins when it does not
have enough fat to chelate and remove them. Mutations some-times result.

My conclusion after 13 years experience and research with intellectually
motivated fasts is that fasts are often more deleterious than
helpful. They may have their place, but I won t gamble with people's
lives using fasts as therapy.

When certain situations are favorable and if an individual has no
appetite, I may suggest that they fast until hungry. However, if the
individual is anorexic, I do not suggest that they fast.

I have replaced fasts with a formula of raw vegetable juices (rarely
fruit juices) and raw eggs. This supplies the nutrients to form solvents
to remove toxicity and the fats necessary to eliminate them from the
body. It is not as dramatic an experience, but it works well, and more
people are able to do it and still function.

Q: You say that fasting weakens the immune system, but Shelton and others
noticed just the opposite - that colds/flus/infections in progress
would cease within a few days of starting a fast, and that new ones
would never occur.

A: Concluding that because colds and flus often cease during fasts does
not mean that health is improved. It has been my experience that colds and
flus and all other diseases are detoxification. I have experienced and
observed that colds and flus often ceased during fasts because the body
could no longer tolerate such major detoxification. Some detoxification
continued to occur during fasts, however it was mainly the tremendous
toxicity from the body cannibalism (acidosis). Weaker cells are consumed
to feed healthier cells. Fasts force the survival-of-the-fittest reality
as in most starved species. This in consequence creates a somewhat
healthier body because it eliminates so many weaker and decaying cells.

In most circumstances, because the body usually requires much time
and nutrients, especially fats and proteins, to detoxify and recover
from fasts and because most people do not eat diets that provide proper
nutrients, people lack the nutrients necessary to ideally enter regular
major detoxification like colds and flus. Especially in our toxic
environment bodies need major detoxification regularly.

Q: It is also known that the starving prisoners of nazi death camps
were less susceptible to typhoid than their "well-fed" guards. This,
if anything, indicates a strengthened not weakened, immune system How
do you explain things like this?

A: I do not attribute increased immunity of typhoid to starving. The high
consumption of alcohol and drugs among guards seems to have contributed to
the greater susceptibility to typhoid. Starving prisoners died of typhoid.

Q: Your book was very informative about the role of raw animal fats,
meat, and eggs for the proper nutritional fuel for our bodies. Would you
please tell us what you feel is a proper level of raw animal products
in our diet, and how you reached this conclusion?

A: For each individual the proper ratio of raw animal products may
vary. Experience has shown me that over time raw animal products produce
the calmest, most balanced human nature with excellent mental clarity.

For the last few years my raw animal products consumption has been
approximately 80% by volume of my diet. I restrict high fructose fruit to
one a day and almost always eat it with a high fat food such as unsalted
raw cheese, raw butter, raw cream, raw milk, raw egg(s), avocado and/or
raw coconut.

As an example of the extreme, the Eskimo ate 99% raw animal products and
lived free of degenerative disease before white men introduced cooking
cauldrons, breads and refined sugar to them. By several accounts of
world travelers and explorers they considered the Eskimo the happiest
of all races.

Their first case of dental decay was 50 years after cauldrons, breads
and refined sugar were introduced. The dental caries only existed among
those who ate some or all of white man's food. Cancer never occurred
among primitive Eskimo.

I resisted a predominantly animal products diet for fear I would feel dull
and sluggish because of the low enzyme and mineral content of feed given
to farm animals. When I finally attempted it I felt dull and sluggish.

As a vitamin, enzyme and mineral supplement I introduced 1 quart a day
of raw vegetable juice divided into 5 or 6 portions, often adding 1
ounce raw cream, raw milk or raw coconut cream to each portion, or ate
a small amount of unsalted raw cheese. The juice perfectly balanced me
and prevented the craving for high fructose fruit that resulted from
eating animal products.

I avoid the high fructose fruit consumption because it causes manic
thought and lack of regular clarity. I eat from 3/4 - 3 lbs of meat
almost daily (that is, red meat and/or seafood and/or fowl).

Q: What objective test measurements have you made on yourself before and
since starting this raw flesh diet? Do you monitor any bio-markers like
pulse rate, blood pressure, body temperature, various blood parameters? If
so, what are they? Have you had a bone scan for osteoporosis? If so,
with what result?

A: While I was a raw-food fruitarian/vegan my pulse rate averaged 62,
blood pressure averaged 107/70, and body temperature 96.8 deg. I was
frequently manic, easily tired or exhausted and quick to be outraged. As
a raw-flesh eater my pulse averages 70, blood pressure 127/80 and body
temperature 97.7 deg F.

I rarely experience mania or lethargy, easily remain calm, and have at
least five times more energy and clarity.

I have not had a bone scan. However, my bones do not easily break as
they did when I was a child. I have had several situations where if I had
had osteoporosis I would have broken bones but did not. In one situation
where had a severe bicycle accident I broke seven bones in my foot. Six
hours later after a 14-year old girl set the bones in my foot I walked
3 miles. The next day I bicycled 12 miles. I was completely painless in
2 weeks. My bones healed 3 times faster than the average person. Such
skeletal healing does not occur if osteoporosis exists.

Q: One of the effects of eating the raw animal products, I have noticed,
is an increased sex drive (without Viagra). You don't mention this
specifically in your book (if so, I missed it), however there are several
references to the high level of sex that you and your clients enjoy. What
are your findings in this area and do you regard sexual energy as a health
indicator? While Hygiene does not frown on sex, they do caution that
over activity in this area is very enervating and to be avoided. What are
your views about what is over activity and its possible harmful effects?

A: I cherish all enjoyments of embodiment. My greatest pleasure is
sexual sensuality. - It is the highest measure of bodily euphoria, the
best feeling. - It is a balance for the routines of society that often
lack pleasure. - When I was under stress, which is rare for my state of
excellent health now, it released tension.

When I was a vegan/fruitarian, ejaculatory orgasm was pleasurable
but draining. I got depressed, anxious and irritable if had regular
ejaculations. I have always had a high level of sex hormones and have
always since age 3 craved orgasm. My sexual appetite did not change
on any diet that I tried. On a raw vegan/fruitarian diet I became more
sexually frustrated.

Now that I consume so much raw protein and fat, I enjoy sex 1-6 hours,
have up to 3 ejaculations, and maintain energy with only 5-6 hours sleep
daily. I feel like I have finally achieved and chosen heaven on Earth.

Regarding sexual energy as a health indicator seems erroneous. Some
people simply do not have active sex glands and have little sex hormones,
resulting in low sex drive. However, they can be incredibly healthy.

Q: In your book, you stated that you have not engaged in any form of
physical exercise (excluding sex of course) for the last seven years and
have been able to stay in excellent condition. How do you explain this
apparent contradiction from the accepted present view that stressing
the muscles is a requirement to maintaining good physical conditioning?

A: When people don't eat enough stable and/or digestible protein they lack
proteins to maintain all tissue, including muscle. I have found that raw
nuts, seeds and germinated grains and nuts do not provide most people
with stable protein for properly building and maintaining well-formed
tissue. When most people eat cooked protein they consume lipid oxides
and protein toxins causing unstable nutrients for building or maintaining
all tissues unless they exercise. When they stop exercising muscles most
often dissipate readily and easily.

The seven-year statement was in the context of 1986. It has been 19
years as of April 1998 that I have not engaged in any form of physical
exercise except roller-skating once a month and regular sex.

Because I consume raw proteins and fat in the form of 1-3 pounds of meat
(seafood, red meat and fowl) daily, my body stays naturally muscular
and fit. Most animals, if fed their fresh, raw natural diets maintain
excellent tone without exercise.

Q: You state in your book that it is best to eat fruit with raw fats,
so the fruit sugar will not be so rapidly absorbed into our systems. What
do you think about high fruit diets?

A: High fructose diets destabilize mineral levels causing osteoporosis,
including tooth decay and periodontitis. The only way to counter this is
with tremendous exercise or emotional stress that burns up the sugars as
quickly as possible. As I mentioned above, high fructose diets as well as
my high carbo-hydrate diet cause blood sugar problem's resulting in manic
thinking and/or behavior, extreme fatigue or tiredness, irritability,
impatience and in some people frequent or uninterrupted depression.

Q: You recommend the use of stone pressed oils (heated below 96 deg F)
in our diets. You state that they should not be eaten with vegetables,
as in a salad. Please explain the benefits of the oils and why the
mixture with vegetables is harmful?

A: Cold-pressed-below-96 deg F oils mainly provide solvents for
detoxification. - They may also be made into any fats as fuel, lubrication
and chelation, but not much. - These oils are chiefly cleansers.

The combination of vegetables (leaves, stalks and roots) and cold pressed
oils is most often inadvisable. Vegetation in the human digestive
tract is mainly undigested. It would take at least one more stomach,
21/2 times more length of digestive tract and 60,000 times more of the
enzymes that disassemble cellulose to derive much protein and fat from
vegetables. If you put cold-pressed oil, without being premixed with raw
vinegar, on vegetables the oil coats the vegetables and further reduces
the digestibility of the vegetables.

Q: You describe enzyme mutations in your book. Could you explain this
process our members and its relevance to health the SAD diet?

A: In order for the body to handle the altered chemicals and compounds
in cooked food the body must create enzymes that will utilize them to
the best of its ability. Because these enzymes are very different from
those naturally made from and for the utilization of raw food, I call
them enzyme mutations. If the body cannot make the enzyme mutations to
utilize adulterated nutrients caused by cooking, allergies will develop
as more of the non-utilizable chemicals and compounds collect in the body.

Q: You stated that raw fats and meats taken from natural sources
are essential to excellent health. You mention this as a new food
group. What exactly are you including in this group, and what levels of
daily consumption do you recommend?

A: Actually, the writer of the Forword to Volume 2 of my book called it
another food group. He did this to stress that the healthy effects of
eating raw fats and meats are so different from the poisonous effects
of eating cooked fats and meats.

Meats and fats that are cooked produce extreme toxicity, whereas meats and
fats that are raw produce no toxic effects. Everyone should completely
disregard all knowledge of cooked fats and meats when considering
them raw.

For example, science and medicine separate HDL and LDL cholesterol,
calling one good and the other bad. When fats are raw, both HDL and LDL
cholesterol are good, and a high cholesterol level is beneficial. It
reveals that, along with the fresh raw fats that will lubricate,
strengthen, fuel and cleanse, toxic cholesterol from cooked and stored
fats is being removed from the body to be eliminated.

Q: Do you include nuts and seeds, and what levels of these do you think
are sufficient?

A: They are not easy to digest for most people. I suggest that people
eat them only when they have a craving for them. Usually people who
eat meat do not crave nuts and seeds. Also Dr. Strueyer of the Costner
excavations determined that as Native Americans began eating nuts and
seeds they developed osteoporosis.

Q: You stated earlier that Eskimos were very healthy, and now you say
nuts/seeds cause osteoporosis. Yet it is also known that meat and dairy
products are big promoters of osteoporosis and that Eskimos lived rather
short life-spans and had brittle bones. Could you comment on osteoporosis
as regards to flesh and dairy consumption?

A: According to Vilhjalmur Stefansson in his book "Cancer: Disease Of
Civilization? - Chapter 14, The Longevity Of Primitive Eskimos", there was
only one community of Eskimo reported to have had a short life-span. This
report seems to have been used to propagandize that Eskimo lived short
lives. In all other reports primitive Eskimo lived lives as long as we
do, a few reached age 100 years. Eskimos who ate their normal animal
diet enjoyed bones and teeth that were so strong they were able to chew
on bones during evening congregations. Osteoporosis only occurred in
Eskimo who ate white man's refined foods.

As I stated earlier, Native Americans developed osteoporosis when they
consumed more nuts and grains according to Dr. Stuart Strueyer. It seems
that Native Americans were not able to assimilate the starch in nuts
and grains, forming Advanced Glycation End-products (AGE's), that is,

Pasteurized dairy is known to cause osteoporosis. In Medical Doctor
William Campbell Douglass' book "The Milk Book", he supplies many
scientific reports that show raw milk causes strong bones free of
osteoporosis. Dr. Francis Pottenger. M.D. demonstrated in his work with
900 cats over a decade that raw dairy and raw meat built strong bones
without the consumption of bone.

My experience with others has repeatedly confirmed that osteoporosis
reversed by eating raw meat and raw milk. According to Vilhjalmur
Stefansson in his book "Not By Bread Alone - Chapter 4: "The Laboratory
Check," no osteoporosis can he associated with eating an exclusively
animal and water diet, even when some meat was cooked.

After I received irradiation and chemo therapies, my cases of periodontal
and carries degeneration became extreme. My teeth moved loosely, and my
gums bled from the slightest touch even while eating. I was advised to
have all my teeth removed. I refused, and instead I began consuming large
quantities of raw milk. Within months my conditions improved considerably
and continued to improve for almost two years.

But then I became a raw fruitarian/vegan. and within two years after
becoming a fruitarian/vegan my teeth again began to decay. I thought it
was a passing detoxification but it lasted 4 years. When I began eating
raw dairy again and raw meat, decay subsided.

After I ate the poisonous mushroom, periodontal and carries degeneration
resumed. Abscesses were near constant. Pain was chronic, lasting for
sometimes a month at a time. Three wisdom teeth and one molar rotted
and self-extracted in my mouth within 11/2 years.

That is when I began to eat raw meat on a daily basis. This controlled
the pain to a large degree.

Now, 17 years later, I have many opened cavities which have sealed
themselves. I have no false teeth in my mouth and am missing only one
molar. Four of seven crowns remain in my mouth from 1978. My teeth are so
firmly connected to the strong jaw bones that I have only experienced pain
during detoxes once every 2-3 years, lasting no more than 3 days. Even
though my teeth are in poor appearance, they are strong.

Q: Eating such high levels of raw animal foods will elevate the body's
cholesterol numbers compared to a vegetarian diet. How do you explain this
contradiction to prevailing views on the need to keep cholesterol numbers
low? Also, what level of cholesterol do you look for in your clients?

A: I have experienced that cholesterol levels should be ignored. I
have found that it doesn't matter what the cholesterol level is if the
cholesterol is taken or made from raw fats. Cooked fats are the problem
because they are cauterized and can no longer exchange ions properly if
at all. Therefore they eventually, in 20-50 years, dry and crack. If
the fat were a part of an artery the artery would dry and crack. Raw
fats continue to exchange ions no matter how long they are in the body,
remaining much more fluid.

Q: You speak of cholesterol values not being significant for raw
fooders. Are you aware that Paavo Airola died of a stroke in his 60's,
presumably from all the raw dairy in his diet? How do you explain this?

A: Although I have read some of his books, I know nothing about Paavo
Airola's personal diet. I don't know his heart condition before he
became a predominantly raw fooder. I do not know the extent of his cooked
fat intake.

According to the immense research of W. C. Douglass MD, a high raw fat diet
does not cause any heart conditions especially regarding the consumption
of raw milk.

I was confused by all of the same assumptive theories - that is why I
rejected most and found my own results.

Relating to my personal experience I point out that I had angina from age
15. I have not suffered angina since I added flesh to my diet. More than
90% of my clients who had high cholesterol levels for years on cooked
diets lowered their cholesterol levels to normal within 6 months on a
raw diet, that included tremendous amounts of raw fat and meat.

Evidence has shown me that the presumption that raw dairy was responsible
for Airola's death is likely to be false.

Q: Do you think any raw meat is ok, including supermarket quality? If
not, where do you get high quality meat? What about the concentration
of environmental pesticides in animal flesh and fats?

A: From laboratory analysis that I arranged with a technician on feces
from raw meat eaters who ate supermarket quality red meat, tests showed
that the same concentrations of toxins that were found in the fat of
the meat passed out in the feces with the fat molecules relatively
unchanged. These tests were done 9 years ago. I do not know if these
same results could occur with present-day concentrations of chemicals
and processed animal meals being fed to animals. I eat antibiotic-free
and hormone-free red meat whenever I can, usually Coleman meat that I
purchase at health food stores. When traveling to some locations I eat
supermarket red meat. I have not had any ill reaction to supermarket
red meat. I eat tremendous amounts of raw fat to bind with toxins and
eliminate them from the body: that is one of the major functions of fats
in our polluted society. I only eat poultry that is raised antibiotic
free and free range. I do not eat farmed fish.

Q: Are avocados a good source of fat? If nut/seed fat is inferior to
animal fat, why is this so? The only thing you cite is osteoporosis,
but that applies equally well, if not more so, to meat and dairy.

A: Avocados are an excellent source of fat: however, when I tried
using avocado to stabilize dental conditions, I rarely received the
beneficial results that I do with animal fat. I experienced that in
most people avocado is utilised for hormonal fluids and functions,
and for detoxification.

I have not done any laboratory testing on why nut and seed fats rarely
lubricate and stabilize the human body. I concluded from others research
that the main problem was the result of improper starch utilization
forming glycotoxins. I have experienced that nut and seed fats are mainly
utilized for detoxification such as in the making of body solvents.

Animal fat stabilizes or soothes the tissues readily and easily in most
cases. Again, I have only seen evidence that raw meat and raw dairy
reverse osteoporosis, not cause it.

Q: You state that parasites are a myth...

A: The parasite myth is that they are pathogenic always. It has been
my experience that parasites are able to eat and digest tremendous
quantities of decaying tissue in short periods: that is a detoxification
process. When an individual has parasites. s/he is afforded the
quickest process of detoxification. However, unless s/he eats enough
and assimilates enough protein to regenerate cells and replace the
tissue, s/he is more likely to have ulcers that may fester and kill
her/him. I have found that with the consumption of raw meats that
provide the nutrients necessary for quick regeneration parasites are
beneficial. By the use of antibiotics, strains of bacteria and viruses
have developed that are immune to all known antibiotics. Medical science
has discovered that bacteria and viruses can mutate, becoming immune
to existing antibiotics. This is creating a very weak race. Basically,
medical science creates a weak human race that will be highly susceptible
to advanced bacteria and viruses. This could likely result in a plague
that would make any previous plague look minor, resulting in an extinction
level event.

Q: ...yet one of our former raw food M2M 'ers who eats meat, Zephyr,
did in fact poison himself with trichinosis parasites from eating wild
raw mongoose. How do you explain this?

A: I do not know Zephyr. I do not have knowledge of his situation,
however, I heard of this and investigated the likely occurrence of
trichinosis from mongoose. I could not find research or facts linking
trichinosis to mongoose.

I found one individual who said that mongoose have one or more sacs
their necks that contain fluid that can be poisonous to most animals,
including humans. It is possible that Zephyr ate one or more of these
sacs, poisoned some of his intestinal walls and developed his own case
of trichinosis to detoxify the decaying tissue that resulted from the
poisoning. Trichinosis usually takes at least several days to gestate
before any ill symptoms are detectable. Zephyr could have had an existent
ill condition that required trichinosis for quick detoxification, and
his trichinosis had nothing to do with eating the mongoose. If Zephyr
had maintained a raw meat diet, his trichinosis would probably have
passed without any severe scarring. If he had I serious allergy to the
mongoose's sacular fluid, his chances of recovery may have been impaired.

These are all hypotheses: I do not have direct knowledge of Zephyr and
his condition.

Q: I hear that other Instinctos in Hawaii have experienced parasitic
infections too.

A: Again, I experienced that parasites are beneficial when an individual
consumes a raw diet that includes raw animal products, especially raw
meats. An analogy is the present-day use of young maggots to clean and
heal festered wounds in a matter of 3 to 5 days. That impresses me.

Q: Under your food-as-remedy section of your book, you mention that
mineral deficiency is improved by using a little sun dried clay mixed
in mineral water. Other authorities state that using inorganic minerals
will not aid in the body's healing process. Please explain your point
of view and how you came to these conclusions?

A: Clay is like a food, especially when moist, and therefore the minerals
are not inorganic. The body can utilize the minerals fairly well. However,
as I state in my book, fresh raw vegetable juices provide the best,
although in some cases incomplete, mineral concentrations. Cheese is
also a concentrated source of organic minerals. My conclusions are always
based on consistent good results and research.

Q: You list many illnesses in your book, along with diets to supply
needed nutrient: to allow the body to heal itself. NH recommends only
that a healthy diet be followed, nothing specific to the illness. Would
you please share your views with us on the use of specific foods for
specific illnesses?

A: When I was a raw food vegan/fruitarian eating mainly mono-meals. I
often observed certain effects from particular foods. I simply logged
the effects and experimented with certain diseases and particular foods.

Q: You also state in your book that distilled water is not to be used
because it will rob the body of minerals. What do you base this conclusion
upon, actual experiments or other sources that you could share with us?

A: I don't remember any negative literature on the subject. I drank
distilled water for nearly two years, 1969-70. My skin became edemic,
thinner, and psoriasis increased.  In the 80's I experimented feeding
distilled water to animals. Over the equivalent 2-year period of their
lives, they developed slight osteoporosis, fragile tissue and general
edema. After placing one suffering group on raw milk and another on
regular mineral water, both groups reversed the osteoporosis, thinning
skin and edema. The raw milk group reversed it in 1/3 the time that the
other group experienced.

Q: That sounds like an interesting experiment. Have you written up the
results and published the raw data anywhere?

A: I tried to publish many of my experiments over the years. Continually,
I was refused for lack of appropriate academic credentials, proper
laboratory environments, and because my findings and conclusions were
too contradictory.

People everywhere, especially in the press, are literally afraid to risk
health. Recently, I was asked to write an article entitled "Health or
Disease: Do We have a Choice?" for Hispanos magazine by an editor whom
I have known for many years. After 3 days' work I submitted it. The
editor-in-chief refused to publish it because of its controversial

Q: You are a big proponent of unheated honey and unheated bee pollen. Can
you tell us how you came to believe so strongly in these two foods?

A: I first learned about it from a military medical doctor in Central
America who observed that wounds healed 3-5 times faster if unheated honey
was applied to wounds. I experimented. both topically and internally with
human and non-human animals and proved the same results. I noticed that
the health of the digestive tract and. generally all tissues improved
considerably in most eases when considerable amounts of unheated honey
were consumed.

Q: Food combining is a hot issue within the Natural Hygiene
organization. What are your views on proper food combinations?

A: I have observed that people on vegan or fruitarian diets lack
proteins. As this condition persists, the intestinal tract's ability to
develop and produce enzymes diminishes. Over a period of years, especially
after child-hood, fewer food combinations are tolerated because of the
lack of certain enzymes. On a raw diet that is high in meat enzymes are
easily produced and most any combination is digestible, except combining
vegetation and meats, including vegetable juice, because they neutralize
the acid fluid and bacteria that digest meat.

Q: You tell the story of the feeding and recovery of your son Jeff in the
first part of the book. This is an effective vehicle for introducing us
to you and your views, as well as to the opposing medical power that we
all have to face. How is your son doing, and is he still following the
diet you used while he was healing from the accident?

A: His auto accident occurred in September 1986. The book takes the
story to only April 1987. Jeff recovered from that accident completely by
August 1987 against every prognosis by a team of neuro-specialists. He
continues to live in Cincinnati where he experiences much criticism
from eating raw meat. Consequently, he falls under pressure and eats a
raw diet only when he gets fatigued or depressed. When he visits me he
voluntarily eats 99% raw and always feels better.

Q: Can you cite any scientific documentation to back up any of your
nonstandard dietary claims?

A: The works of Dr. Max Gerson, Dr. Lars Erick Essen of Sweden's Vita
Nova Clinic, Dr. Carl Otto Aly, Dr. Gordon Latto, Dr. Phillip Kusby,
Professor Hans Eppinger from Vienna, H. Glatzel of Germany, Dr. Bircher
Brenner of Zurich, Dr. William C. Douglass and Dr. Vilhjalmur Stefansson.

Q: Have you been satisfied with the public reception to your book?

A: I am impressed. My publisher basically had an advertising budget
of $5,000 that was spent in a matter of weeks. The book is selling
well simply by word of mouth. Another publisher has asked to publish a
paperback edition but nothing has been negotiated.

Q: Do you have any plans to write another?

A: I am presently working on a recipe book and a pedagogue for my
nutritional courses. The recipe book was scheduled for completion December
31,1998, but I have been involved in politics surrounding the ban of
fresh raw dairy in California and Los Angeles. I formed the organization
Right to Choose Healthy Food that will combat any legislation banning
people's right to chose raw food. The legal research and letters campaign
is time consuming. Right now the process involves gathering signatures
for petitions and letters to the Los Angeles Board of Supervisors, the
Governor and the Los Angeles Medical Milk Commission, and donations. We
are researching and developing a class action law suit against the state
and county governments and possibly the federal government for banning
interstate transportation of raw dairy. If you would give your readers
our petition and letter we would appreciate it. This is not simply
about banning raw dairy, it is about the banning of raw juices such as
Odwalla's apple juice that is always pasteurized now. Also, there's the
probability that all fresh foods will be required to be irradiated with
toxic radioactive material. The M.D.'s who control health departments
on federal, state, county and city levels are so germ phobic that they
are systematically trying to ban all raw food. We could use your help
to stop them.

Q: What sorts of projects or plans do you have for the future?

A: Several individuals are interested in clinical tests using my Native
diet, and others are simply interested in clinics using my Native
diet. Those are viable possibilities.  Another project is utilizing
fresh raw herbs and their juices with my diet to speed and facilitate.
I am working on a book with more info on my nutritional research to
aid the classes that I give to therapists, such as the one Stanley Bass
attended. And I have ceased these classes until my pedagogue is finished.

Q: Where do you see yourself 5 years from now?

A: Providing that society survives the Y2K problems, I see myself
writing and directing movie's with plots based on alternative
therapies. Allopathic medicine has dominated the media: I would like to
see more than a modicum toward alternatives.

Q: May we include your address and phone number in case our members have
any questions for you?

A: I require that people read my book before I speak with them - most
questions are answered in the book.