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                          Charlie Donham Interview


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Q: I am delighted that you have agreed to do an interview with our little
health journal. I think you will find the membership eager to listen
to your views; however, better understanding will occur with as much
verification of your points as this format will allow. If you would,
start by telling us about yourself and your practice in the nutritional
field, as well as something about your earlier illnesses and the road
to your present standard of health. If you could elaborate on that with
some data, it would be helpful

A: I was born very sickly into a violent household. I had a brother who
was still in diapers when I was born. He went from having had mother's
full attention to having none and he never forgave e for it. He tortured
me nearly daily. My father's discipline put me in the hospital several
times. My dyslexia and autism, which no one understood at the time,
embarrassed and frustrated my parents. My dyslexia was to the extent that
the printed page would swirl, and I got vertigo. If tried to read, I would
vomit. I tried holding the page down with my finger, but my parents and
teachers would not let me. Because I was borderline autistic and sickly,
I rarely played with other children.

Near my 10th birthday I developed peritonitis, which was a severe
intestinal infection. Doctors misdiagnosed it as appendicitis. When
they discovered that my appendix was fine, they took it out anyway
"in case it causes you problems in the future." My bones were brittle,
and I regularly broke bones in my limbs. I was diagnosed as borderline
diabetic at 13. I developed angina pectoris — muscle spasms in and
around the heart — by age 151/2. I was diagnosed with juvenile diabetes
at that age. At 19 I developed an ulcer that turned tumorous after medical
therapies. After surgery the incision turned tumorous from outer skin
to stomach. It was large.

Doctors ordered it irradiated, and that caused me to develop Multiple
Myeloma (blood and bone cancers). Multiple Myeloma survivors are less
than 0.01%. Doctors ordered chemotherapy, which is like napalming the
body, destroying mostly healthy cells to try and eliminate a few cancer
cells. For every cancer cell that is killed by chemotherapy, 1 billion
healthy cells are killed. That is like killing everybody on the planet
because you don't like 6 people. The chemotherapy made me a semi-invalid,
and gave me psoriasis and bursitis. I refused to continue chemo after 3
months. I chose to die rather than be completely crippled for the rest
of my short life. At that point I had had 7 "incurable" diseases.

A volunteer for a hospice gave me a small booklet written by a woman
who cured herself of cancer by drinking raw carrot juice. I thought that
that was pretty bizarre and unrealistic, but I read the book anyway. I
tried the carrot juice. Within 10 days my dyslexia vanished. There I
was at 22 years old, never having read more than 20 pages of a book,
finally able to read.

I read voraciously about diets and nutrition. If I went 7-10 days without
drinking the raw carrot juice, dyslexia returned. I experimented with
diets, food-combining and sometimes supplements. The macrobiotic diet
seemed to put my cancers in remission but exacerbated my diabetes and
psoriasis. I began experimenting with helping people who had health
problems. I experienced some spectacular healing with raw foods,
especially with enormous consumption of raw fat, like raw cream from
cows in combination with vegetable juices.

By my 25th birthday I was eating totally raw food, vegan/fruitarian
style. At 27, after 2 years eating completely raw, I had enough
energy to go wild, even though I was regularly so hungry as a raw-food
vegan/fruitarian that sometimes I overate until I vomited. I mounted
a bicycle and peddled for 21/2 years all over North America from
coast to coast and from Alaska to Central America. I lived off
the earth, sleeping on the ground, or in trees when it rained, and
picking fruit off plants. All of the physical stress that came from
traveling and living in the elements helped burn up all of the sugar
from fruitarianism. Osteoporosis became apparent, but I did not then,
as I should have, attribute it to the demineralization caused by large
fruit consumption. I felt euphoric most of the time. I did not realize
that my extreme highs were mania created by excessive fruit. I searched
for answers to complete healing. I wanted to reverse the damage done
by medical therapies and not ever be bothered by any of my lingering
diseases. I knew that I would not find answers in a society that
postulated dictums based on theory.

I wanted experience to be my teacher. I lived with somewhat primitive
people, learning their healing and dietary techniques. I observed healthy
animals for weeks at a time. After 21/2 years my cancers resurged. Rather
than fight it, I chose to die. I selected an old Native American burial
ground and began fasting myself to death. After several weeks fasting
I had an unusual experience with coyotes. They gave me a freshly killed
wild jackrabbit. I thought it would kill me if I ate it raw. (I had been
told by all of my medically and scientifically minded relatives that wild
rabbits contained bacteria or parasites that would kill a human.) I knew
that fasting to death could take at least 60 days. I wanted to end my
life more quickly, so I ate the rabbit raw. I returned to my campsite
and lay down to die, expecting severe stomach cramps that I was told
accompanied bacterial or viral contaminated food. I felt euphoric, calm
and happy. I thought that I was leaving my diseased body because I felt
so good. But I woke the next morning having had the first completely
restful sleep of my life. I was nearly age 30.

I began hunting. I ate rattlesnakes and birds. I worked farms for raw
milk, cream, eggs and chickens. Within a few months I felt robust and
strong. I returned to Los Angeles to spread the wonderful news. Everybody
thought that I had lost my mind. Over the next year my health increased
by leaps and bounds because of the addition of raw meat to my raw
diet. However, because of misinformation about foodborne illness from
bacteria and parasites, I ate raw meat only two or three times a week,
usually fish or chicken. I always ate it with the fear that there would
be a time when bacteria or parasites would sicken and kill me. I began
to jog, then run. I ran up to 13 miles, did 250 pushups with my feet
2-3 feet off the ground, and 30 handstand pushups every day for 1 year.

Because I had been so weak throughout my life, and at this point
I could do so much, I felt invincible. People commented on how
extraordinarily healthy I looked. I was hired by a health food store as
the nutritionist. A few people listened and tried the raw meat, 
mainly fish and chicken. Their increased health was always remarkable.

I experimented with supplements. The more supplements I consumed, the
weaker I got. I realized within 6 months that supplements were toxic on
a raw diet. Over the 2-year period, I observed that most people who took
mega-vitamin therapy developed toxic livers and glands. It showed up in
their irises as well as temperaments and physical condition. But because
they experienced an increase in energy, they thought it beneficial. Their
highs were from toxic emergencies, the liver sending out hormones
calling forth glycogen to handle the toxicity. Supplement-toxicity
is similar to coffee or cigarettes, most often producing debilitating
side effects. It destroyed my desire and ability to exercise. I never
returned to exercise and yet I developed and redeveloped the physique
that accompanies strenuous regular exercise. I continued eating raw
meat once or twice weekly, and my health gradually increased. Whenever I
experienced detoxification, healing was always a progress toward better
functionality. I did not deteriorate as most people do on cooked foods,
or meatless raw foods.

I knew I was on the right track by eating raw meat, but I could not
set aside the bacteria and parasite phobias. I was especially concerned
because the vagus nerve to my stomach had been severed in surgery for
stomach cancer. I had no hydrochloric acid to dissolve and annihilate
bacteria and parasites upon entering my body. Science and medicine put me
in the category of octogenarians who, they say, are in danger of death
from bacterial and parasitic invasion from lack of hydrochloric acid in
the stomach. I continued to eat meat anyway.

In my 35th year I misidentified a poisonous mushroom and ate it. It was
the deadliest amanita mushroom, the "death cap." I ate enough to kill 15
people my size. My cancers returned twice as bad as they had ever been,
and it destroyed 90% of my liver. Along with severe liver pain, extreme
weight loss, and body cramps, my diabetes returned. Every book on the
"death cap" mushroom said that death came within 10 days, and it was
welcomed. No one in written history had survived after eating 1/15 the
amount I had. I was a semi-invalid again.

I healed slowly by eating plenty of raw fat. Too slowly. After 11/2 years
of slow healing I began eating meats almost daily, including beef, lamb,
buffalo, seafood and organically grown fowl. Healing time doubled, and
diabetes vanished. But it took me 61/2 years to recover to a somewhat
balanced state of being and my cancers to reenter remission for the third
time. It took 11 years to recover to where I had been before I consumed
the poisonous mushroom. But I recovered completely.

After 12 years eating raw meat and never having had any more than a
little diarrhea that might have been associated with it, I learned to
relax and not fear raw foodborne bacteria and parasites. It seemed to me
at that point that all of the hullabaloo about raw foodborne bacteria
and parasites was superstitious, like the witch hunts of old times. My
research showed that the FDA's research on foodborne bacterial illness,
24-81 million cases a year, stated that over 96% were cooked and processed
canned and bottled food related.

Raw was getting the rap, but cooked and processed were the culprits. I
experimented and found that raw foods soured and/or spoiled with lots of
bacterial activity but did not putrefy. Only cooked and processed food
putrefied. Only cooked and processed foods contained lipid oxides and
disease producing protein toxins. The worst that soured and spoiled raw
food caused sometimes was nausea and diarrhea with, occasionally, cramps
and fever and, rarely, a little blood in the stool; whereas cooked and
processed putrefied food often caused such severe poisoning that lives
were lost or near death. It seems to me that science and medicine are
in total denial, or that they are protecting the processed food industry
and restaurants.

My nutritional career unofficially began in 1969. Since I hadn't died in
1968 when doctors said I would, I thought that I had had some answers
to better health. In 1969 I began advising and suggesting healing
methodologies for people, especially particulars about diet. Now that I
look back on my life, I wonder how I could have been so confident, even
arrogant, to advise anyone with the little knowledge and experience that
I had. I knew a lot about disease but little about health and healing. I
seemed to have a fairly good intuition for it.

However, I adhered to certain idealistic concepts that interfered and
sabotaged my intuition. I misled people into veganism and/or fruitarianism
because I believed that all meat was poisonous and bad karma. I didn't
realize that something had to be killed to sustain life, whether animal,
vegetable or fruit. That is a law of this planet. I did not realize
that only cooked meats contained poisons (i.e., lipid oxides and protein
toxins). In my early years as a nutritionist I helped many and hurt many.

Because my help was always greater than my mishaps, I continued to
counsel. After I learned about the tremendous properties of raw fats,
my successes reached 60%. After I learned about the fantastic healing
characteristics of eating raw meat, my successes with disease rose to
75%. After I learned the techniques for amounts and particulars that
certain foods had, my successes reached 85% and better, depending upon
the disease.

Occasionally there was relatively immediate healing. Most often, though,
healing requires time to build strength, detoxify and regenerate. I
compare the human body to New York City. The body has been around a long
time. It requires replumbing and remodeling. Everything gets torn down
a wall at a time, with a wheelbarrow of toxicity carried out at a time,
and a wheelbarrow at a time of new supplies brought in, and then time
to rebuild and finish. Wellness most often takes time.

The fact of healing, according to Dr. F. Pottenger's work, is that it
takes 5 generations to achieve optimal health. It takes approximately 10
days to replace every cell (one generation) in the blood, 21/2 years to
replace one generation (every cell) of glands, approximately 41/2 years
to replace one generation of arteries, approximately 5 years to replace
one generation of  intestines and tendons, approximately 6 years
to replace one generation of cartilage, and approximately 71/2 years
to replace one generation of bone. Therefore, to achieve one's optimal
health in a particular body part or system, it takes 5 generations: that
is, 7 weeks for blood, 121/2 years for glands, 221/2 years for arteries,
25 years for intestines and tendons, 30 years for cartilage, and 371/2
years for bone. Usually, healing enough to stop disturbing pain can be
achieved during the first generation of healing.

Q: Many of our members are Natural Hygienists and have chosen to eat
a vegetarian (vegan and raw primarily) diet. Many fast on occasion to
allow their body to eliminate the toxic condition from daily stress. How
do you view this practice of fasting, and what experiences or data could
you share with us on these views?

A: I have completed approximately 75 fasts from 1969-1980 of various
lengths — many 1-day-a week fasts, several 5-day, 10-day and 15-day
fasts, one 31-day fast and one 41-day fast. During 60% of them I drank
water only, with no cheating ever.

During 40%, I drank all or some of my urine and a little water. During
the 41-day fast I drank all of my urine and a little water. Each one,
including 1-day fasts, was difficult. The easier of the long-term
fasts was the 41-day drinking urine because of the nutrients in the
urine. Urine is the blood with most of the red blood cells removed and
a little ammonium added by the kidneys.

During the 41-day fast (I should call it a "urine feast") I lost the
least amount of weight and energy, had the fewest headaches, and had
better disposition, but my breath was atrocious all of the time.

The 31-day fast on water only I did at age 27. It took me 21/2 years to
regain my equilibrium.

The last intellectually motivated fast I did at age 33 — the 41-day
urine fast. It took me 11/2 years to regain my strength. I found that
fasting longer than 3 days was impossible without daily enemas to dilute
the toxins in the bowels. Enemas destroyed the bacteria that is the
major constituent of feces, but so did the toxicity from fasting. I had
constant headaches, depression, anxiety and nausea without enemas.

I stopped fasting when I realized that the side effects of forced-fasting
were greater than the benefits. The benefit of ketosis, cellular
cannibalism, which usually occurs within 12 hours of fasting, is that
it reduces the overpopulation of sluggish cells, leaving the stronger
cells and those that overproduce prostaglandins. This is a process of
mass genocide via cannibalism. The deleterious effects are that blood
maintains a higher acid ratio, weakening and damaging red blood cells
and their ability to transport oxygen.

If fasting continues beyond 2 days, severe blood-fat deficiency
occurs. The body leeches fats from the lymph system and cells to maintain
strength. This fat-leeching weakens the immune system.

Another deleterious effect of fasting is that the necessary bacteria
level in the intestines diminishes. Since 60-90% of fecal matter is born
of bacteria, constipation results and severely diminishes bacterial
synthesis of B vitamins and amino acids. This further weakens and
diminishes the immune system. Another side effect from fasts, resulting
from blood-fat and lymph deficiencies, is that many toxins from either
industrial pollution or natural byproducts of metabolism are freed. They
irritate, burn and often imbed in the stronger cells, therefore weakening
them. Fat, especially in lymph, usually binds with toxins and either
neutralizes or escorts them out of the body through the mucus membranes,
skin or bowels. If great collections of these toxins occur during fasting,
kidney damage results.

These side-effects usually create edema, especially when eating is
resumed. The body often tries to dilute the toxins when it does not have
enough fat to chelate and remove them. Mutations sometimes result.

My conclusion, after 13 years experience and research with intellectually
motivated fasts, is that fasts are often more deleterious than
helpful. They may have their place, but I won't gamble with people's lives
using fasts as therapy. When certain situations are favorable, and if
an individual has no appetite, I may suggest that they fast until hungry.

However, if the individual is anorexic, I do not suggest that they
fast. I have replaced fasts with a formula of raw vegetable juices
(rarely fruit juices) and raw eggs. This supplies the nutrients to form
solvents to remove toxicity and the fats necessary to eliminate them
from the body. It is not as dramatic an experience, but it works well,
and more people are able to do it and still function.

Q: You say that fasting weakens the immune system, but Shelton and others
noticed just the opposite — that colds/flus/infections in progress
would cease within a few days of starting a fast, and that new ones
would never occur.

A: Concluding that because colds and flus often cease during fasts does
not mean that health is improved. It has been my experience that colds and
flus and all other diseases are detoxification. I have experienced and
observed that colds and flus often ceased during fasts because the body
could no longer tolerate such major detoxification. Some detoxification
continued to occur during fasts; however, it was mainly the tremendous
toxicity from the body cannibalism (acidosis). Weaker cells are consumed
to feed healthier cells.

Fasts force the survival-of-the-fittest reality, as in most starved
species. This, in consequence, creates a somewhat healthier body because
it eliminates so many weaker and decaying cells. In most circumstances,
because the body usually requires much time and nutrients, especially
fats and proteins, to detoxify and recover from fasts, and because most
people do not eat diets that provide proper nutrients, people lack the
nutrients necessary to ideally enter regular, major detoxification,
like colds and flus. Especially in our toxic environment, bodies need
major detoxification regularly.

Q: It is also known that the starving prisoners of Nazi death camps
were less susceptible to typhoid than their "well-fed" guards. This,
if anything, indicates a strengthened, not weakened, immune system. How
do you explain things like this?

A: I do not attribute increased immunity of typhoid to starving. The high
consumption of alcohol and drugs among guards seems to have contributed to
the greater susceptibility to typhoid. Starving prisoners died of typhoid.

Q: Your book was very informative about the role of raw animal fats, meat,
and eggs for the proper nutritional fuel for our bodies. Would you please
tell us what you feel is a proper level of raw animal products in our
diet, and how you reached this conclusion?

A: For each individual, the proper ratio of raw animal products may
vary. Experience has shown me that over time raw animal products
produce the calmest, most balanced human nature with excellent mental
clarity. For the last few years my raw animal products consumption has
been approximately 80% by volume of my diet. I restrict high fructose
fruit to one a day and almost always eat it with a high fat food, such
as unsalted raw cheese, raw butter, raw cream, raw milk, raw egg(s),
avocado, and/or raw coconut.

As an example of the extreme, the Eskimo ate 99% raw animal products and
lived free of degenerative disease before white men introduced cooking
cauldrons, breads and refined sugar to them. By several accounts of world
travelers and explorers, they considered the Eskimo the happiest of all
races. Their first case of dental decay was 50 years after cauldrons,
breads and refined sugar were introduced. The dental caries only 
existed among those who ate some or all of white man's food. Cancer
never occurred among primitive Eskimo. I resisted a predominantly animal
products diet for fear I would feel dull and sluggish because of the
low enzyme and mineral content of feed given to farm animals. When I
finally attempted it, I felt dull and sluggish. As a vitamin, enzyme
and mineral supplement I introduced 1 quart a day of raw vegetable juice
divided into 5 or 6 portions, often adding 1 ounce raw cream, raw milk,
or raw coconut cream to each portion, or ate a small amount of unsalted
raw cheese. The juice perfectly balanced me and prevented the craving for
high fructose fruit that resulted from eating animal products. I avoid
the high fructose fruit consumption because it causes manic thought
and lack of regular clarity. I eat from 3/4-3 lbs of meat almost daily
(that is, red meat and/or seafood and/or fowl).

Q: What objective test measurements have you made on yourself before and
since starting this raw flesh diet? Do you monitor any bio-markers like
pulse rate, blood pressure, body temperature, various blood parameters? If
so, what are they? Have you had a bone scan for osteoporosis? If so,
with what result?

A: While I was a raw-food fruitarian/vegan, my pulse rate averaged 62,
blood pressure averaged 107/70, and body temperature 96.8°. I was
frequently manic, easily tired or exhausted, and quick to be outraged.

As a raw-flesh eater my pulse averages 70, blood pressure 127/80, and
body temperature 97.7°. I rarely experience mania or lethargy, easily
remain calm, and have at least five times more energy and clarity. I
have not had a bone scan; however, my bones do not easily break as they
did when I was a child.

I have had several situations where, if I had had osteoporosis, I would
have broken bones but did not. In one situation where I had a severe
bicycle accident, I broke seven bones in my foot. Six hours later, after
a 14-year old girl set the bones in my foot, I walked 3 miles. The next
day I bicycled 12 miles. I was completely painless in 2 weeks. My bones
healed 3 times faster than the average person. Such skeletal healing
does not occur if osteoporosis exists.

Q: One of the effects of eating the raw animal products, I have noticed,
is an increased sex drive (without Viagra). You don't mention this
specifically in your book (if so, I missed it), however there are several
references to the high level of sex that you and your clients enjoy. What
are your findings in this area and do you regard sexual energy as a health
indicator? While Hygiene does not  frown on sex, they do caution that
over activity in this area is very enervating and to be avoided. What are
your views about what is over activity and its possible harmful effects?

A: I cherish all enjoyments of embodiment. My greatest pleasure is
sexual sensuality. It is the highest measure of bodily euphoria, the
best feeling. It is a balance for the routines of society that often
lack pleasure. When I was under stress, which is rare for my state of
excellent health now, it released tension. When I was a vegan/fruitarian,
ejaculatory orgasm was pleasurable but draining. I got depressed, anxious
and irritable if I had regular ejaculations. I have always had a high
level of sex hormones and have always, since age 3, craved orgasm. My
sexual appetite did not change on any diet that I tried.

On a raw vegan/fruitarian diet, I became more sexually frustrated. Now
that I consume so much raw protein and fat, I enjoy sex 1-6 hours, have
up to 3 ejaculations, and maintain energy with only 5-6 hours sleep
daily. I feel like I have finally achieved and chosen heaven on Earth.

Regarding sexual energy as a health indicator seems erroneous. Some
people simply do not have active sex glands and have little sex hormones,
resulting in low sex drive. However, they can be incredibly healthy.

Q: In your book, you stated that you have not engaged in any form of
physical exercise (excluding sex of course) for the last seven years and
have been able to stay in excellent condition. How do you explain this
apparent contradiction from the accepted present view that stressing
the muscles is a requirement to maintaining good physical conditioning?

A: When people don't eat enough stable and/or digestible protein, they
lack proteins to maintain all tissue, including muscle. I have found
that raw nuts, seeds, and germinated grains and nuts do not provide
most people with stable protein for properly building and maintaining
well-formed tissue. When most people eat cooked protein, they consume
lipid oxides and protein toxins causing unstable nutrients for building or
maintaining all tissues unless they exercise. When they stop exercising,
muscles most often dissipate readily and easily.

The seven-year statement was in the context of 1986. It has been 19
years as of April 1998 that I have not engaged in any form of physical
exercise except roller-skating once a month and regular sex. Because I
consume raw proteins and fat in the form of 1-3 pounds of meat (seafood,
red meat, and fowl) daily, my body stays naturally muscular and fit. Most
animals, if fed their fresh raw natural diets, maintain excellent tone
without exercise.

Q: You state in your book that it is best to eat fruit with raw fats so
the fruit sugar will not be so rapidly absorbed into our systems. What
do you think about high fruit diets?

A: High fructose diets destabilize mineral levels causing osteoporosis,
including tooth decay and periodontitis. The only way to counter this is
with tremendous exercise or emotional stress that burns up the sugars as
quickly as possible. As I mentioned above, high fructose diets, as well as
any high carbohydrate diet, cause blood sugar problems resulting in manic
thinking and/or behavior, extreme fatigue or tiredness, irritability,
impatience, and in some people frequent or uninterrupted depression.

Q: You recommend the use of stone pressed oils (heated below 96° F)
in our diets. You state that they should not be eaten with vegetables,
as in a salad. Please explain the benefits of the oils and why the
mixture with vegetables is harmful?

A: Cold-pressed-below-96° F oils mainly provide solvents for
detoxification. They may also be made into any fats as fuel, lubrication,
and chelation, but not much. These oils are chiefly cleansers. The
combination of vegetables (leaves, stalks and roots) and cold-pressed
oils is most often inadvisable. Vegetation in the human digestive
tract is mainly undigested. It would take at least one more stomach,
21/2 times more length of digestive tract and 60,000 times more of the
enzymes that disassemble cellulose to derive much protein and fat from
vegetables. If you put cold-pressed oil, without being premixed with
raw vinegar, on vegetables, the oil coats the vegetables and further
reduces the digestibility of the vegetables.

Q: You describe enzyme mutations in your book. Could you explain this
process to our members and its relevance to health on the SAD diet?

A: In order for the body to handle the altered chemicals and compounds
in cooked food, the body must create enzymes that will utilize them to
the best of its ability. Because these enzymes are very different from
those naturally made from and for the utilization of raw food, I call
them enzyme mutations. If the body cannot make the enzyme mutations to
utilize adulterated nutrients caused by cooking, allergies will develop
as more of the non-utilizable chemicals and compounds collect in the body.

Q: You stated that raw fats and meats taken from natural sources
are essential to excellent health. You mention this as a new food
group. What exactly are you including in this group, and what levels of
daily consumption do you recommend?

A: Actually, the writer of the Forward to Volume 2 of my book called it
another food group. He did this to stress that the healthy effects of
eating raw fats and meats are so different from the poisonous effects
of eating cooked fats and meats. Meats and fats that are cooked produce
extreme toxicity, whereas meats and fats that are raw produce no toxic
effects. Everyone should completely disregard all knowledge of cooked
fats and meats when considering them raw. For example, science and
medicine separate HDL and LDL cholesterol, calling one good and the
other bad. When fats are raw, both HDL and LDL cholesterol are good,
and a high cholesterol level is beneficial. It reveals that, along with
the fresh raw fats that will lubricate, strengthen, fuel and cleanse,
toxic cholesterol from cooked and stored fats is being removed from the
body to be eliminated.

Q: Do you include nuts and seeds, and what levels of these do you think
are sufficient?

A: They are not easy to digest for most people. I suggest that people
eat them only when they have a craving for them. Usually people who eat
meat do not crave nuts and seeds.

Also, Dr. Struever of the Costner excavations determined that as Native
Americans began eating nuts and seeds, they developed osteoporosis.

Q: You stated earlier that Eskimos were very healthy, and now you say
nuts/seeds cause osteoporosis. Yet it is also known that meat and dairy
products are big promoters of osteoporosis and that Eskimos lived rather
short life-spans and had brittle bones. Could you comment on osteoporosis
as regards to flesh and dairy consumption?

A: According to Vilhjalmur Stefansson in his book Cancer: Disease Of
Civilization?, Chapter 14: "The Longevity Of ‘Primitive' Eskimos,"
there was only one community of Eskimo reported to have had a short
life-span. This report seems to have been used to propagandize that Eskimo
lived short lives. In all other reports "primitive" Eskimo lived lives as
long as we do; a few reached age 100 years. Eskimo who ate their normal
animal diet enjoyed bones and teeth that were so strong they were able
to chew on bones during evening congregations.

Osteoporosis only occurred in Eskimo who ate white man's refined foods. As
I stated earlier, Native Americans developed osteoporosis when they
consumed more nuts and grains, according to Dr. Stuart Struever. It
seems that Native Americans were not able to assimilate the starch in
nuts and grains, forming Advanced Glycation End-products (AGE's), that
is, glycotoxins.

Pasteurized dairy is known to cause osteoporosis. In Medical Doctor
William Campbell Douglass' book The Milk Book, he supplies many
scientific reports that show raw milk causes strong bones free of
osteoporosis. Dr. Francis Pottenger, M.D., demonstrated in his work
with 900 cats over a decade that raw dairy and raw meat built strong
bones without the consumption of bone. My experience with others has
repeatedly confirmed that osteoporosis reversed by eating raw meat and raw
milk. According to Vilhjalmur Stefansson in his book Not By Bread Alone,
Chapter 4: "The Laboratory Check," no osteoporosis can be associated
with eating an exclusively animal and water diet, even when some meat
was cooked.

After I received irradiation and chemo therapies, my cases of periodontal
and carries degeneration became extreme. My teeth moved loosely, and
my gums bled from the slightest touch, even while eating. I was advised
to have all my teeth removed. I refused, and instead I began consuming
large quantities of raw milk.

Within months my conditions improved considerably, and continued to
improve for almost two years. But then I became a raw fruitarian/vegan,
and within two years after becoming a fruitarian/vegan, my teeth again
began to decay. I thought it was a passing detoxification, but it lasted 4
years. When I began eating raw dairy again, and raw meat, decay subsided.

After I ate the poisonous mushroom, periodontal and carries degeneration
resumed. Abscesses were near constant. Pain was chronic, lasting for
sometimes a month at a time. Three wisdom teeth and one molar rotted
and self-extracted in my mouth within 11/2 years.

That is when I began to eat raw meat on a daily basis. This controlled
the pain to a large degree. Now, 17 years later, I have many opened
cavities which have sealed themselves. I have no false teeth in my mouth
and am missing only one molar. Four of seven crowns remain in my mouth
from 1978. My teeth are so firmly connected to the strong jaw bones
that I have only experienced pain during detoxes once every 2-3 years,
lasting no more than 3 days. Even though my teeth are in poor appearance,
they are strong.

Q: Eating such high levels of raw animal foods will elevate the body's
cholesterol numbers compared to a vegetarian diet. How do you explain this
contradiction to prevailing views on the need to keep cholesterol numbers
low? Also, what level of cholesterol do you look for in your clients?

A: I have experienced that cholesterol levels should be ignored. I
have found that it doesn't matter what the cholesterol level is if the
cholesterol is taken or made from raw fats. Cooked fats are the problem
because they are cauterized and can no longer exchange ions properly,
if at all. Therefore, they eventually, in 20-50 years, dry and crack. If
the fat were a part of an artery, the artery would dry and crack. Raw
fats continue to exchange ions no matter how long they are in the body,
remaining much more fluid.

Q: You speak of cholesterol values not being significant for raw
fooders. Are you aware that Paavo Airola died of a stroke in his 60's,
presumably from all the raw dairy in his diet? How do you explain this?

A: Although I have read some of his books, I know nothing about Paavo
Airola's personal diet. I don't know his heart condition before he became
a predominantly raw fooder. I do not know the extent of his cooked fat
intake. According to the immense research of W. C. Douglass, M.D.,
a high raw fat diet does not cause any heart conditions, especially
regarding the consumption of raw milk. I was confused by all of the same
assumptive theories; that is why I rejected most and found my own results.

Relating to my personal experience, I point out that I had angina
from age 15. I have not suffered angina since I added raw flesh to my
diet. More than 90% of my clients who had high cholesterol levels for
years on cooked diets lowered their cholesterol levels to normal within
6 months on a raw diet that included tremendous amounts of raw fat and
meat. Evidence has shown me that the presumption that raw dairy was
responsible for Airola's death is likely to be false.

Q: Do you think any raw meat is OK, including supermarket quality? If
not, where do you get high quality meat? What about the concentration
of environmental pesticides in animal flesh and fat?

A: From laboratory analysis that I arranged with a technician on feces
from raw meat eaters who ate supermarket quality red meat, tests showed
that the same concentrations of toxins that were found in the fat of the
meat passed out in the feces with the fat molecules relatively unchanged.

These tests were done 9 years ago. I do not know if these same results
would occur with present-day concentrations of chemicals and processed
animal meals being fed to animals. I eat antibiotic-free and hormone-free
red meat whenever I can, usually Coleman meat that I purchase at health
food stores. When traveling to some locations I eat supermarket red
meat. I have not had any ill reaction to supermarket red meat. I eat
tremendous amounts of raw fat to bind with toxins and eliminate them from
the body; that is one of the major functions of fats in our polluted
society. I only eat poultry that is raised antibiotic free and free
range. I do not eat farmed fish.

Q: Are avocados a good source of fat? If nut/seed fat is inferior to
animal fat, why is this so? The only thing you cite is osteoporosis,
but that applies equally well, if not more so, to meat and dairy.

A: Avocados are an excellent source of fat; however, when I tried
using avocado to stabilize dental conditions, I rarely received the
beneficial results that I do with animal fat. I experienced that in
most people avocado is utilized for hormonal fluids and functions,
and for detoxification.

I have not done any laboratory testing on why nut and seed fats rarely
lubricate and stabilize the human body. I concluded from others' research
that the main problem was the result of improper starch utilization
forming glycotoxins. I have experienced that nut and seed fats are mainly
utilized for detoxification, such as in the making of body solvents.

Animal fat stabilizes or soothes the tissues readily and easily in most
cases. Again, I have only seen evidence that raw meat and raw dairy
reverse osteoporosis, not cause it.

Q: You state that parasites are a myth.

A: The parasite myth is that they are pathogenic always. It has been
my experience that parasites are able to eat and digest tremendous
quantities of decaying tissue in short periods; that is a detoxification
process. When an individual has parasites, s/he is afforded the
quickest process of detoxification. However, unless s/he eats enough and
assimilates enough protein to regenerate cells and replace the tissue,
s/he is more likely to have ulcers that may fester and kill her/him. I
have found that with the consumption of raw meats, that provide the
nutrients necessary for quick regeneration, parasites are beneficial.

By the use of antibiotics, strains of bacteria have developed that
are immune to all known antibiotics. Medical science has discovered
that bacteria can mutate, becoming immune to existing antibiotics. All
beneficial bacteria are becoming extinct from pollution and industry
is creating a very weak race. Basically, medical science creates a
weak human race that will be highly susceptible to disease. This could
likely result in a plague that would make any previous plague look minor,
resulting in an extinction level event. It will not be microbe propelled
but chemically propelled.

Q: …yet one of our former raw food M2M'ers who eats meat, Zephyr, did
in fact poison himself with trichinosis parasites from eating wild raw
mongoose. How do you explain this? A: I do not know Zephyr. I do not have
knowledge of his situation. However, I heard of this and investigated the
likely occurrence of trichinosis from mongoose. I could not find research
or facts linking trichinosis to mongoose. I found one individual who
said that mongoose have one or more sacs in their necks that contain
fluid that can be poisonous to most animals, including humans. It is
possible that Zephyr ate one or more of those sacs, poisoned some of his
intestinal walls and developed his own case of trichinosis to detoxify
the decaying tissue that resulted from the poisoning. Trichinosis
usually takes at least several days to gestate before any ill symptoms
are detectable. Zephyr could have had an existent ill condition that
required trichinosis for quick detoxification, and his trichinosis had
nothing to do with eating the mongoose. If Zephyr had maintained a raw
meat diet, his trichinosis would probably have passed without any severe
scarring. If he had a serious allergy to the mongoose's sacular fluid,
his chances of recovery may have been impaired. These are all hypotheses;
I do not have direct knowledge of Zephyr and his condition.

Q: I hear that other Instinctos in Hawaii have experienced parasitic
infections too.

A: Again, I experienced that parasites are beneficial when an individual
consumes a raw diet that includes raw animal products, especially raw
meats. An analogy is the present-day use of young maggots to clean and
heal festered wounds in a matter of 3 to 5 days. That impresses me.

Q: Under your food-as-remedy section of your book, you mention that
mineral deficiency is improved by using a little sun dried clay mixed
in mineral water. Other authorities state that using inorganic minerals
will not aid in the body's healing process. Please explain your point
of view and how you came to these conclusions?

A: Clay is like a food, especially when moist, and therefore the minerals
are not inorganic. The body can utilize the minerals fairly well. However,
as I state in my book, fresh raw vegetable juices provide the best,
although in some cases incomplete, mineral concentrations. Cheese is
also a concentrated source of organic minerals. My conclusions are always
based on consistent good results and research.

Q: You list many illnesses in your book, along with diets to supply
needed nutrients to allow the body to heal itself. Natural Hygiene
recommends only that a healthy diet be followed, nothing specific to
the illness. Would you please share your views with us on the use of
specific foods for specific illnesses?

A: When I was a raw food vegan/fruitarian eating mainly mono-meals,
I often observed certain effects from particular foods. I simply logged
the effects and experimented with certain diseases and particular foods.

Q: You also state in your book that distilled water is not to be used
because it will rob the body of minerals. What do you base this conclusion
upon, actual experiments or other sources that you could share with us?

A: I don't remember any negative literature on the subject. I drank
distilled water for nearly two years, 1969-70. My skin became edemic,
thinner, and psoriasis increased. In the 80's I experimented feeding
distilled water to animals. Over the equivalent 2-year period of their
lives, they developed slight osteoporosis, fragile tissue, and general
edema. After placing one suffering group on raw milk and another on
regular mineral water, both groups reversed the osteoporosis, thinning
skin and edema. The raw milk group reversed it in 1/3 the time that the
other group experienced.

Q: That sounds like an interesting experiment. Have you written up the
results and published the raw data anywhere?

A: I tried to publish many of my experiments over the years. Continually,
I was refused for lack of appropriate academic credentials, proper
laboratory environments, and because my findings and conclusions
were too contradictory. People everywhere, especially in the press,
are literally afraid to risk health. Recently, I was asked to write an
article entitled "Health or Disease: Do We Have a Choice?" for Hispaños
magazine by an editor whom I have known for many years. After 3 days'
work, I submitted it. The editor-in-chief refused to publish it because
of its controversial content.

Q: You are a big proponent of unheated honey and unheated bee pollen. Can
you tell us how you came to believe so strongly in these two foods?

A: I first learned about it from a military medical doctor in Central
America who observed that wounds healed 3-5 times faster if unheated honey
was applied to wounds. I experimented, both topically and internally, with
human and non-human animals and proved the same results. I noticed that
the health of the digestive tract and, generally, all tissues improved
considerably in most cases when considerable amounts of unheated honey
were consumed.

Q: Food combining is a hot issue within the Natural Hygiene
organization. What are your views on proper food combinations?

A: I have observed that people on vegan or fruitarian diets lack
proteins. As this condition persists, the intestinal tract's ability to
develop and produce enzymes diminishes. Over a period of years, especially
after childhood, fewer food combinations are tolerated because of the
lack of certain enzymes. On a raw diet that is high in meat, enzymes are
easily produced and most any combination is digestible, except combining
vegetation and meats, including vegetable juice, because they neutralize
the acid fluid and bacteria that digest meat.

Q: You tell the story of the feeding and recovery of your son Jeff in the
first part of the book. This is an effective vehicle for introducing us
to you and your views, as well as to the opposing medical power that we
all have to face. How is your son doing, and is he still following the
diet you used while he was healing from the accident?

A: His auto accident occurred in September 1986. The book takes the
story to only April 1987. Jeff recovered from that accident completely by
August 1987, against every prognosis by a team of neuro-specialists. He
continues to live in Cincinnati, where he experiences much criticism
from eating raw meat. Consequently, he falls under pressure and eats
a raw diet only when he gets fatigued or depressed. When he visits me,
he voluntarily eats 99% raw, and always feels better.

Q: Can you cite any scientific documentation to back up any of your
nonstandard dietary claims?

A: The works of Dr. Max Gerson, Dr. Lars Erick Essen of Sweden's Vita
Nova Clinic, Dr. Carl Otto Aly, Dr. Gordon Latto, Dr. Phillip Kilsby,
Professor Hans Eppinger from Vienna, H. Glatzel of Germany, Dr. Bircher
and Dr. Brenner of Zurich, Dr. William C. Douglass, and Dr. Vilhjalmur

Q: Have you been satisfied with the public reception to your book?

A: I am impressed. My publisher basically had an advertising budget
of $5,000 that was spent in a matter of weeks. The book is selling
well simply by word of mouth. Another publisher has asked to publish a
paperback edition but nothing has been negotiated. Q: Do you have any
plans to write another? A: I am presently working on a recipe book,
and a pedagogue for my nutritional courses.

The recipe book was scheduled for completion December 31, 1998, but I
have been involved in politics surrounding the ban of fresh, raw dairy
in California and Los Angeles.

I formed the organization Right To Choose Healthy Food that will combat
any legislation banning people's right to choose raw food. The legal
research and letters campaign is time consuming. Right now the process
involves gathering signatures for petitions and letters to the Los
Angeles Board of Supervisors, the Governor, and the Los Angeles Medical
Milk Commission, and donations. We are researching and developing a
class action law suit against the state and county governments, and
possibly the federal government for banning interstate transportation
of raw dairy. If you would give your readers our petition and letter,
we would appreciate it. This is not simply about banning raw dairy; it
is about the banning of raw juices, such as Odwalla's apple juice that
is always pasteurized now. Also, there's the probability that all fresh
foods will be required to be irradiated with toxic radioactive material.

The M.D.'s who control health departments on federal, state, county and
city levels are so germ phobic that they are systematically trying to
ban all raw food. We could use your help to stop them.

Q: What sorts of projects or plans do you have for the future?

A: Several individuals are interested in clinical tests using my Primal
Diet, and others are simply interested in clinics using my Primal
Diet. Those are viable possibilities. Another project is utilizing fresh
raw herbs and their juices with my diet to speed and facilitate healing.

Q: What about upcoming classes or talks?

A: I will be speaking in NYC at the New Life Expo on October 23, 24, 25,
1998. I will lecture on each day. On Sunday the 25th the lecture will
be followed by a workshop. The lectures are free. Their is a charge
for the workshop, normally $35, but they have not yet advised me. I
have not been advised of location. I will also be speaking in Del Mar,
California on November 21 or 22, 1998. The free lecture is followed by
a $35 workshop. The location will be set by the end of this week.

As I am also working on a book with more information on my nutritional
research to aid my classes, such as the one Dr. Stanley Bass attended,
I have ceased these classes until I have this pedagogue finished.