Joanne Unleahsed Interview =========================================================================== +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ | | | MAN ATE RAW MEAT TO DIE - NOW HE EATS IT TO LIVE | | | +-------------------------------------------------------------------------+ Q: Hello, welcome to Joanne Unleashed. Today's guest is Aajonus Vonderplanitz. He was born in 1947, and he's a seeker, author, a raw food diet advocate, and a nutritional consultant. He's written two books: We Want to Live and The Recipe for Living Without Disease. We're going to be talking about his ideas on what constitute a healthy diet. Welcome, Aajonus. A: Well, thank you, Joanne. How are you? Q: I'm fabulous. But I'm sure I could be better. So I'm excited to listen to some of your ideas here. I read Stanley Bass's site. I'm familiar with him and the natural hygiene movement and all that, and I read your history. Oh my god, what a horrific history. So would you give us a rundown of the problems that you had when you were a kid? A: Well, I was born into a pretty violent household and a brother who was still in diapers when I got home and never forgave me for taking mother's attention away at the snap of me coming in the door from the hospital. So he pushed me on rusty things. And my mother was a nurse, so she'd take me to the doctor or hospital. So I had three tetanus shots by the time I was 18 months old. The last one at 18 months old gave me autism. So I was unable to communicate, so I was tortured because I would go off into stares. And my parents didn't want to admit that they had a brain-damaged child, so they would slap me around, and beat me, and prevent me from going into those stares. Staring off is what I'm talking about by stares. The abuse was pretty difficult all the way through my years. I would get colds and flues that would last three to five months. I was bedridden about two the three months of every year. By the time I hit 12 years old I had developed a case of peritonitis that was diagnosed as appendicitis, misdiagnosed, and they took it. They took my appendix out even though they it in good shape. Probably the only thing that was in good shape in my body. And they took it out because they wanted to prevent any problems in the future, and that's the medical profession. So from there I got my third polio vaccine when I was 15. And it gave me diabetes, juvenile diabetes and angina pectoris, which were heart attacks. So I suffered about 300 heart attacks from the age of 15 and one-half to the age of 22. By the time I reached 19 years old I had developed an ulcer. I was a heavy smoker and drinker, because I had such terrible fatigue and fibromyalgia. As a child I used to steal into the kitchen at night and take the leftover coffee, and put it in a jar, and put it under my bed, and then drink it so I would have some energy. That was about from the age of eight years old. And I started smoking at eight for the nicotine energy. So by the time I hit 16 years old I was consuming about 11 cups of coffee a day and smoking two packs of nonfiltered cigarettes daily. I developed an ulcer at 19, and I was vomiting blood pretty badly. The treatment for that gave me a tumor, cancer next to the ulcer. The treatment for that gave me cancer of the blood and bone, which was radiation therapy, because the tumor went all the way out to my stomach where the incision was. It was quite high and quite large. And the radiation was 10 weeks, and they cauterized my spine, which is the same as firing clay in a kiln. So I was able to move maybe an inch and a half to two inches from side to side, and that was it, with excruciating pain. It got to the point where I couldn't even stand. I had to lie on the floor, and I had to live on the floor. I couldn't even lie on a bed because it was too soft. I had to be able to control every movement of my body to prevent or to reduce the pain. Q: Were you working at this time? A: Because I was autistic I had a talent for math and geometry and physics. So I was a good programmer. I could write a program in one to two hours that it would take specialists a year to write. Some technicians at a university, a special technical university, stood by me. They did all the writing and everything except for the programming. So I was making a lot of money as an idiot. So I was working at doing that, but then when I got to the point where I was a worm on the floor, I couldn't do anything. I couldn't concentrate. I couldn't focus. I couldn't even get on top of a pan to defecate. I couldn't hold a jar to urinate in, so I was just going all over myself over the floor. It was a wooden floor, and I had all the rugs and everything taken out of my living room so that I could crawl around different spots on the floor until some volunteers from the hospice came would clean the house and prepare food for me. My basic diet at that time was RC Cola and donuts blended together and drunk out of a big, fat straw. The reason for that is the radiation therapy dissolved the bone around my teeth, so they dangled in my gums. If I bit on my own teeth, bit down, then I bled profusely. So I was getting up to two transfusions a week just for that. So it was pretty miserable. One of the volunteers from the hospice, an 18-year-old African American boy who was a pretty good singer and worked for the Ford Motor Company traveling, singing with that group, he talked me into drinking carrot juice and raw milk. And it changed my life. I didn't get well overnight. I got well gradually. Just 10 days after drinking the carrot juice and milk the autism shut off, so I was able to read for the first time in my life at 22 years old. And it changed my life. So I began eating lots of raw foods after that. I'm going on my 64th year, 42 years past my death sentence from the medical profession. And I'm the only man alive, only person alive, man or woman, who lived more than three months beyond their diagnosis of those four cancer. Q: And what got you into raw meat? A: I had gotten into raw everything except for meats because I had a vagotomy pyloraplasty for the stomach cancer, which means they severed the vagus nerves to my stomach, which means I would not secrete hydrochloric into my stomach for the rest of my life. So they put me in a class of people they consider in danger of death from bacterial, parasitical, or any kind of a microbe invasion in food and in the stomach. I was told that I could not eat anything raw. Even bananas would have to be steamed, apples, everything. That was what they told me. Then when I started eating the raw carrots and milk, of course that was just the opposite of what the medical profession suggested. Of course they don't make any money if you're not sick, so they're going to tell you just the opposite of what's good most of the time. So I got into raw meat down the line even though because I had had the surgery and didn't have hydrochloric, I was afraid of parasites messing up my brain or some part of my body. I didn't get into the raw meat. I just stuck with raw dairy, raw eggs, and raw fruits, and some raw vegetables. But that didn't reverse my cancers of the blood and bone as well as I would like, and I was seeking other things. Then I went into a heavy fruitarian vegetarian diet without the dairy, and that was a mistake but a mistake I carried on with the belief that I would get well. And for six and a half years. And then at the end of six and a half years I was very ill with the cancers again, the blood and bone cancers, and somewhat the lymphatic. So I was just deciding to die. I was going off to a burial ground in a desert below Palm Springs and fast myself to death just by drinking water. I knew it would take 60 days or more. A den of coyotes that was in the canyon there introduced me to raw jackrabbit. They caught it and gave it to me, and I ate it. I ate it because I thought it was going to kill me. Q: Let's go back to that. How long had you been fasting in the desert at this time? A: They started, you know, every night… They lived up in the canyon. I picked a foothill of the canyon that they happened to have a den in, so they'd have to come by me every night. It was about 10 days after I was there, maybe 11. When you're fasting you don't have that great a memory. But they killed this rabbit and gave it to me. When I was a young boy, I was so sick I couldn't play with other kids. I basically learned to sew and cook, was an artist, and that's about all I could do. So my brothers and cousins were going hunting, rabbit hunting, and my uncle told them that if they shot a rabbit and were going to cook it, they had to cook it until it was brown inside. No meat could be pink, because there's an organism, a microbe, in wild rabbit that will infect the intestines and kill them painfully within two days' period. That dialogue went through my head at that moment as I'm looking down at this dead rabbit on my feet. I thought, Oh, the coyotes are just going to help me kill myself quickly, because I know I'd have to fast 60 days to die if I drank water. So I picked up the rabbit, and of course it was squishy and raw, and I didn't want to eat animals because I loved them. That was another reason for being a vegetarian, probably the main reason. I had to psych myself into it, because I vomited about 3 bites. I psyched myself into it, remembered all those nights at the dinner table and my parents made me eat those vegetables, cooked vegetables that would make me projectile vomit. So all those many hours that I had to sit after everybody else left the dinner table to get them down. So I went back to that and I picked up the rabbit and started eating it again. It took me a while keeping everything down. Then all of a sudden after about 10 bites of it it tasted so good that I was just devouring it. So I devoured about three and a half pounds of a seven and a half pound jackrabbit, and the coyotes shared the rest. And I went back to my campsite to die. I waited for the microbe to take over my intestines in the next two days. Two days went by—nothing. I felt better than I had in my whole life. You know, still with joint pain because of the bone cancer, but I still felt a stability that I had never had. So three days went by and still nothing. So I realized that the raw meat was the answer. I began eating rattlesnakes, and bird, and chipmunks, whatever little I could find out there in the desert. And that wasn't enough, so I started bicycling around to farmers and made a deal to shovel manure, milk cows, milk goats, anything to get my raw milk, eggs, and raw meats and cheeses. Within two and a half months I went from about 98 pounds up to about 140. Q: In two and a half months? A: Yeah, in two and a half months, and I looked like a scaled-down Arnold Schwartzenegger. I realized that I had finally hit the answer, a big answer, and went back to Los Angeles to spread the word: raw meat was the answer. People said, "Are you crazy? You're going to get a brain fluke and you'll be an idiot," and I said, "Well, I've been there and done that." The raw meat is the only thing that's ever made me feel really alive and good. So I ate it two, three days a week, only three meals a week. Probably three pounds of raw meat a week, and that's it. Mainly it was chicken or fish, mainly fish, actually. Q: Okay, when you were in Los Angeles and getting this meat, were you buying it in the grocery store? A: No. I was either going to a specialty market. But I wouldn't go into a regular grocery store. At that time I didn't. When I started traveling more, of course, I did. I just at more butter, or more fat with it, an avocado or something with it to help remove toxins that might have been in the poorly grown or chemically grown animals. Q: Now how does eating fat remove toxins? A: Well, we know that if we analyze fat in any person's body, we find great concentrations of toxins in the brain, in the bone marrow, and any fatty tissues on the body. And persons, they have fatty tissue in their muscles and around their body. If they're not overweight, then the poisons are going to go to the brain and bone marrow mainly. With that I knew that eating fats would bind with toxins. The body would use fat to eliminate toxicity in the system and bind with it. And I proved that in experiments and tests. Q: Why don't you tell me about those. A: I would feed animals toxic substances with and without…that was in food. I wouldn't purposefully poison them right off. I would take foods from a regular supermarket like meats that had hormones and other toxins injected into them for growth and for so-called immunity. I would find that if the group that I fed only the meats, a lot of that toxicity remained in their bodies that I analyzed in that meat that I was feeding them. And in the animals that I fed either butter or some cream or cheese along with the meats discarded most of those toxins out the feces. Q: Now how did you know the first group was retaining the toxins. A: Because it wasn't in their feces. It wasn't in their urine. Q: And how did you check that? A: I had the feces analyzed. Q: Really? A: Yes. Q: What kind of toxins were there in the ones that were coming out? A: Well, they had high rates of aluminum, barium, mercury, some had a lot of lead. There were a lot of synthetic hormones that were discharged. Growth hormones. Each analysis as the time cost me about $2,600. Now it's $8,800 to $12,000 per test. But that was back in the '80s when I did them. Q: What I don't understand stand is we have toxins that are distributed throughout our body, right, because they get past the intestinal wall into the bloodstream or whatever. So how does consuming fat in your mouth that's in your digestive tract pull out those toxins from the body? A: It doesn't pull them out necessarily. Well, cheese will. But what happens is the body's wise. Your white blood cells are fatty cells basically. That's why they call them white blood cells, because they're predominantly fat cells. And they consume toxicity. They're phagocytes. Phago means "to eat," and they eat toxicity. They consume it. So that is fat. Also, your body uses fat molecules to attract and bind or capture toxins and hold them. Q: Okay, but that's in the body. That's not in the intestinal tract coming out the feces. A: But see, if the fat goes in with the meat and the body has enough fat in the intestines with the meat while it's digesting it, then the body can arrest it right there. It doesn't have to get absorbed and then have to remove it with other fat later. Q: I see. So eating fat doesn't necessarily reduce the bodily burden; it just ensures that any toxins in the food that you're eating get passed out. A: Well, mostly. It doesn't do that in every circumstance with all kinds of toxins but most. Q: So how do you remove the bodily burden of toxins. A: LOL. Loooooonnnnggg process. Cheese will act as an attractor. So let's say you put cheese in your mouth and you've got all of your fluid systems passing through all tissue at all times. So in the mouth the circulation of blood, lymphatic, and neurological fluids are passing through. So while you eat the cheese or butter or anything, you can attract these poisons out of the systems. And if the cheese (I find cheese does it the best), cheese will attract it all the way through the intestinal tract until it's out the rectum. And it will just collect all along the way. If you're very, very toxic, you have fibromyalgia, cancer, anything like that or arthritis, rheumatism, then eating cheese on an hourly basis—and it just takes a small amount, a sugar-cubed size amount like a half a teaspoon. For some people who are larger, of course, they may need up to a teaspoon or more every hour—it will help pull these toxins out of those fluid systems. To unearth them from deep tissue from having been stored inside cells or around in the body, then depending upon the toxin, you eat a food that helps pulls that out of the system. And I talk about which foods those are in my book We Want To Live in the Remedy section. Let's take for example heavy metals like mercury. Cilantro is a good substance to help pull it out of the body. Blueberries are a good substance to help bind with it when you've got it out of deep tissue. Also eating clay that's not from a volcanic ash will help eliminate and pull out stored toxic metals. Q: Okay, now how does it do that though? If the clay is in the digestive tract, which is technically outside of the body, where are the toxins entering the digestive tract to bind to the clay or cilantro? A: Oh, they don't. The body uses it in the tissue. The body takes the nutrients out of the clay just like it takes nutrients out of any part of any food and utilizes them to create processes throughout the body. Q: To pull them out of, say, fat tissue or some other nerve tissue or something like that? A: Right. Yes. Q: And then how does the body excrete that? A: Ninety percent is supposed to discharge through the skin. Q: Oh, really? A: Yeah. And if it doesn't… You know, that's why people have acne and rashes and stuff like that. If they don't have those in their toxic society, then they're not discharging it. Or if they're not having colds and flues they're not discharging it. But when you have a cold or a flu, you're discharging out the skin of your mucous membranes, which isn't the best place to discharge it, but at least it's discharging from there. Q: I had always read through the natural hygiene literature that if you have rashes and boils and things like that, that that was a sign of vicarious elimination, because the normal organs of elimination were overburdened, and that it's not normal to have rashes and things like that as a form of detoxification. A: Well, if you're talking about dogs and cats, yes, because they don't perspire. And for them any discharge through the skin will be very damaging and very discomforting. Q: I'm talking about humans. A: But in humans and most other animals, we perspire profusely. We're supposed to. If we don't then you're in trouble. Q: Okay, but that doesn't answer my question. A: Yes? Okay, we have a lymphatic system. The lymphatic system does what? It cleans up and neutralizes all poisons in the body. It discharges it where? It discharges it in the connective tissue. Where? Underneath the skin and the muscles. To do what? To be perspired. Q: So how about the natural hygiene view that…. A: Well, the natural hygienists are under the same hoodwinking that all medical professionals are. They believe everything backwards. Q: Really? A: According to whatever the pharmaceutical houses want you to believe. Q: Natural hygiene? A: Absolutely. You have to understand, all that training goes back to whom? Whatever's accepted in the universities. Even the natural hygiene. Q: Natural hygiene? Are we talking about the same thing? Herbert Shelton, Stanley Bass? Those people? A: Absolutely. He got his training in the same area, and they've never gotten out of it. Look, if they studied autopsies like I did, slicing people and other animals about that are already dead, and you see the connections of where the toxins store, where they flow, where the lymph dumps its toxins, you'd realize that most of it's supposed to pass out the skin, 90 percent of it. Q: Wow, that's like not a paradigm I'm at all familiar with. LOL. A: LOL. Well, none of mine is conforming to anything. Because I was autistic and I realized that, and I think most autistic children are this way and probably all, everything that comes out of every person's mouth beyond the age of two is a lie. Ninety percent or more. And we realize that, and we're so afraid to talk and speak, and mostly our communication centers shut off anyway, so we can't. So we look at the world as very, very opposed to happiness. So when you look at that, you don't listen to absolutely as truthful. Anything they tell you, anything they tell me, I wouldn't believe it. I'm a show me. I have to see it. I have to know how, why, where, when, everything. Q: Okay, let's talk about the acidity in meat. Everyone says if you eat a lot of meat, it's going to leech the calcium from your bones. It's too acidic. What's your answer to that? A: Well, that is probably very true for many people who are eating cooked meats but not at all for raw. Q: I've heard that raw meat is acidic. A: Well, of course. You're supposed to be acidic. Again, the hygienists have it backwards. We're not supposed to be alkaline. We're not supposed to be 7 percent or neutral. Q: Our blood is supposed to be 7 point… A: No. That's what you're told, and that's what you believe. That isn't what I found to be healthiest. Mine has been 5.5 ever since I started eating raw meat. My urine, my saliva. Q: I'm talking about the blood. A: In the blood. They're all 5.5. And I found all of my patients who are 5.5 are the healthiest. Around 5.5 Q: The blood is 5.5? I've read from everybody that if you vary even the slightest amount from, what is it? 7.3 or something like that? That you'll go into a coma or die. A: Well, they obviously don't know what they're talking about. Because I've been in 5.5 for about 32 years. Q: Where did you get your blood tested? A: I've had it tested in many places. The last was Washington University Medical School in St. Louis. Q: 5.5. I can't believe that. A: 5.5. Yep. Q: That's crazy. Actual blood. Did the doctor say anything to you when… A: No. That's normal. They normally see that. It's only in the alternative field where you have that nonsense about alkalinity. Q: Really? A: Yep. Q: (stuttering while my brain grapples with this). I'm going to have to look up into that. Oh my god. Okay. So if your blood and the blood of the people who follow your diet is 5.5, and everybody's saying it's supposed to be 7 point something, then everyone else is incredibly sick. A: Well, that's what I would say. Absolutely. If you are an acidic person… Ninety percent of our microbes in the intestinal tract, 90 percent of our digestive juices are acidic. Hydrochloric acid is one of the most acidic compounds there is. Q: But the bile salts are alkaline. A: Some. Q: I guess you only release those bile salts if you have a meal that requires an alkaline salt, right? A: That's right. I mean if you're eating, let's say, a vegetable, then of course your bile will be of an alkalizing nature. But if you're eating fats from meat or dairy, then your bile will be highly acidic. Q: Really? A: Yes. Q: Holy cow! LOL. A: Of course fat's pretty neutral basically in itself. Bile is acidic or alkaline depending on what food you're eating, whether it's a vegetable source or animal source. Q: Okay, so eating meat that's acidic in nature isn't a problem, because we're supposed to be acidic anyway. And most of the population that's not eating this raw meat is alkaline in their blood, which is, well how is that affecting the body? A: Well you have to take a look at Stanley Bass. Wonderful man. When he came to study with me in late 1990s, he was very overweight. He was almost blind with cataracts. During the course he could barely stay awake. He probably slept through half of all the courses. Very unhealthy but a diehard, very strict hygienist. It took him, he was, like you, very devil's advocate toward everything that I taught, but he saw people who had recovered so remarkably, even much quicker than he had seen before, that he was there taking the course. Gradually over the next two years he started doing a little bit of it here and there, and he lost all that excess weight, his cataracts nearly dissolved, his hair color returned to a great extent, his whole life changed. That's why he has me on his website. Here's a diehard hygienist who was against dairy, meat, everything, and here he was now consuming them. Q: Yeah, a lot of those hygienists died of horrible diseases. A: Absolutely. Q: Which is not something they tell you. A: No. Q: Because I used to be a pretty diehard hygienist promoting the raw vegan diet and all that. Then when I learned about the primal diet, it was like, oh, wait a minute. This totally makes sense, you know? A: Yeah, it just doesn't work. Q: Yeah, it doesn't work. A: And I only do what works. I mean I wouldn't be doing this. It's not an easy diet to do. It is for me now, but it certainly wasn't. It isn't an easy diet for absolutely to do, because everybody's been taught to freak out about raw meat. Even after three years of eating it, I hear people all the time, "You're going to get brain fluke, and you're going to be an idiot." After three years of hearing that, I started worrying about it myself every time I ate it, but I ate it because it made me feel good. It's the only thing that stabilized my health. Q: Yeah, you should have been dead 40 years ago, right? A: It still took me six and a half years to get to a normal state of health from the cancers and all and completely heal from them 11 and a half years. But still it worked. I felt better. If I didn't eat the meat, I got weak. I would just be a slug and have more pain. And then for 10 years I ate the meat worried almost every time. I'm going to get a brain fluke. I'm going to get sick on this. But yet all I did was get healthier and better. And then I had this stupid worry because of accepting the same stupidity of information that comes from the medical profession about raw meats. And then I said, okay, let's end this once and for all. Let's go see these tests that have been done that showed that animals who eat raw meats get parasites or get a disease. And I went to five of the main universities where such tests would have been performed, and guess what? None. There have never, ever been any experiments in any university anywhere. I asked every nutritional professor, every medical doctor at those universities, so I talked with over 80 people, and nobody knew of any formal tests regarding raw meat eating with any animal. So here it was a whole myth. A fallacy. A fiction. I was so angry that the medical profession always say to everybody, "Oh, he's not credible. He's not credible," and yet they're the most uncredible people in the world. Q: Do you think that the raw meat diet would be an excellent diet for people with cancer? A: In every case I've seen, yes. Q: And how many people have you known who had cancer, went on your diet, and reversed the cancer? A: Fourteen years ago when my book first came out, it was 13 years, 95 percent, and that was validated by the neuroscientist from Columbia University, Elnora Van Winkle. She met with 232 that survived out of the 242 patients, and she interviewed them after up to 12 years being on the diet. They were all cancer symptom-free. I didn't want them to have X-rays, only ultrasound, so some of them could not be proved. But Elnora Van Winkle, she validated it and wrote it. I still think you can find that report on the Internet somewhere. Now I'm up to only losing about three per hundred. So that means 97 percent. It means 97 out of a 100 kick the cancer. Probably I've worked with 1,200 people with cancer. Q: All right, I'll put a link to your website so people can contact you. A: Well, it's not my website. I don't have time, but I contracted with a couple who run a website. Q: Yeah, but they can look up your diet anyway. A: Yes. And It's We Want to Live. Q: Wow, you've really given something for me to think about, that blood pH. I'm still reeling from that. LOL. A: LOL. Q: I mean challenging paradigms is where I'm at, and now you're challenging mine. Damn. I don't know what to ask you at this point. LOL. That's amazing. So basically you should have been dead 40 years ago, and here to still are. A: Forty-two years ago. Q: And here you still are helping people get healthy eatin' raw meat! How long have you been eating raw meat? A: I started eating raw meat, that rabbit was in September of '76, and then in December of '82 I began eating meat on a daily basis, almost twice daily. Up to then it was just three times a week. Now I eat about seven pounds a week, a pound a day. Q: What else do you eat? A: I eat raw eggs. I may eat anywhere up to 50 a day. Sometimes I won't eat meat and I'll have just eggs all day. Q: Fifty?! A: Up to 50, yes. Q: Have you ever had your bloodwork done? A: Eggs are the most easily digestible food in the world, and it's the most complete nutrient. The only thing I found that can't happen is it doesn't increase cellular division. It helps all of those cells that are already alive reconstitute and get very strong, but it takes meat to increase the rapidity of cellular division. So it's like eating raw meat allows for growth hormones again. Q: How do you eat these eggs? Do you just like throw them back? A: Yeah. Most of them I just suck. I'll break or crack one end, the bottom end, the fat end, so that the membrane inside will collapse, but not a hole in it. Then in the end that's more pointed I poke a hole in that end and then suck the white out first, because it will digest very rapidly. And then the yolk takes a little bit longer because it has all the fats in it. Usually an egg will digest in 27 minutes. And because it's already all liquid, all the protein, the fats, and all the vitamins, it readily is absorbed within five inches of the intestines. So that prevents the intestines and the whole body from using so much of its energy in digestion. So let me give you an example that I use in my recipe book The Recipe for Living Without Disease in that I tell the incident about an MD who called me from the east coast and said, "I've got an emphysemic patient who was diagnosed seven years ago, and for the last two years she's been mainly on machines and bedridden. Looks like she's going to die this weekend." And this is a Thursday night. "What can I do?" And I said, "Well, you're calling me a little late, aren't you?" and she said, "Well, I'm an MD. I have my whole family and everything to support, so I can't put them in jeopardy. It is the law that an MD, a licensed MD, cannot advise anything other than regular medical therapies unless a patient has been on the therapies for 10 years and failed or is on their death bed. So this woman is now on her death bed, and I can approach alternatives." So I said, "Well, that's your conscience. All I can tell you to do at this point is to get her 10 to 15 dozen eggs, put them on her bed table, and tell her to eat as many as she can." So I got a call on Monday morning from this raspy-voiced woman, and she said, "It worked. I'm out of bed. What else can I do?" and I said, "Well, who are you?" She explained that her doctor had called me and I had told her to eat dozens of eggs and she had emphysema. She was off the machines and out of the bed. In just two days. She ate 66 eggs on that weekend: 33 on Saturday, 33 on Sunday. Was off the machines and out of bed on Monday morning. That is what eggs can do. Q: Well, I'm going to have to start trying some raw meat. LOL. You know, I switched from a vegan wannabe. I could never really pull it off, right, so I of course ate a lot of ice cream to make up for it. A: Right. Q: And then I went on the primal and I did really good. Because I gave up gluten this back pain that I had had for 30 years went away. And recently it's coming back when I eat cheese, so now I think I have to give up dairy because I'm afraid I might have an intolerance to the casein in the dairy. A: Only if it's cooked. Only if it's pasteurized and homogenized. Q: I've heard that even if it's raw, if you have… A: Not true. I've never met anybody who's truly allergic to raw dairy. A lot of people who have symptoms of it, even when they drink the raw dairy at first it's because the old casein and lactate that was cauterized from pasteurization is still in their body, usually in the liver or in the pancreas. Q: So just go for it, huh? A: For those people, like I say in the book, have only two to four ounces daily for three months and it'll go away. Probably I have talked with 50 people who have been like that out of probably 20,000, and all of them drink milk now without any problem. Q: Wow. Good, because I love cheese. I hate giving that up. A: Well, really in cheese you don't digest much of it anyway unless you eat honey with it. It's mainly a vacuum and a magnet to pull the poisons out of the body. When you eat honey with it, it's a great mineral supplement. It's your best mineral supplement there is. Q: Boy, the natural hygienists… Herbert Shelton would be rolling in his grave right now! LOL. A: He is rolling in his grave. LOL. Q: Okay, and with that, is there anything you'd like to add before we end the conversation? A: Yeah. Just anything the medical profession says, do the opposite 99 percent of the time and you'll be right. Q: Thank you so much for sharing this information with us. A: You're welcome. Thank you, Joanne.